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Trolley Bus

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rod
  • Start date Start date
Rod I got a photo of a Nechells Trolleybus dated 1932 but this looks a bit earlier and I wonder why it says Special Car on it,was it being tested as the radiator (or front) is very wide
 
Rod ,same bus different picture

Trolleybus no.11,one of the 1922 vehicles built by Railless Ltd.loading in Old Square the city terminus of the Nechells route

Colin
 
Thanks for the replies everyone........ Thats another cracking shot Colin, and what a difference it makes showing a different aspect hey? Thank you
 
Belatedly, I would suggest that that first picture was taken in Great Lister Street, while the old tram tracks were being taken up, but before the public service was started. The twelve new trolleybuses were ordered in September 1921, but there was a long hiatus until they entered service on 27 November 1922. The trams were cut back to Nechells Green on 14 August 1922, and the remaining part finished on 26 November, the day before the trolleybuses started. Looking at the picture you can see that although the trolleybus was not in public service, and I would guess that it was a demonstration trip for members of the Tramways (not yet Transport) Committee.
Peter
 
'Railless' No 11, OK 4833, was new in 1922 and ran until February 1932. They were the first covered-top trolleybuses in the country, and 'Railless' referred not only to their chassis maker's name but also to the fact that they were considered as trams without rails rather than buses. Some cities called them 'Trackless trams'.
Their bodywork was by Charles Roe of Leeds, electrical equipment (including tram-type hand controller) by Dick, Kerr & co., and they were powered by two 42 HP motors, one driving each rear wheel. They were 24'6" long, 7'6" wide (Birmingham's trams were only 6' wide and ran on narrow gauge [3'6"] tracks), 16'3" high and each one (there were 12 of them) cost £3000. Not cheap in those days.
The photograph was taken during a demonstration run, and was specially posed by the road works to show how, unlike trams, trolleybuses could negotiate around obstacles blocking their path.

Trolleybus 11 OK 4833.jpg

Here's a view of similar bus no 6 in Washwood Heath depot yard.

6 OK 4928.jpg
 
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The trolley 11, (OK 4833), is taken at High Park Corner, Nechels Park Rd probably on 26 November 1922, the day before the service started
 
We have a photograph of my wife's grandfather William Toone standing next to Trolley bus number 5, on Nechells 7 route by Cuckoo Bridge. The registration number of the trolley bus is OK 4827 and has passengers on board. The photograph says "First trolley Cuckoo Bridge" on the rear.
If anyone is interested or can tell us any more information on this particular trolley, I would be most grateful to hear from you.
 
OK 4827 was no 5 in the 1922 trolleybus fleet, one of the Roe bodied Railless vehicles like those shown above. They were powered by two 42 horsepower electric motors, each driving one rear wheel. They were 24'6" long, 7'6" wide, 16'3¼" high and cost £3000 each. All were withdrawn from service in 1932 and broken up, having been replaced by new Leyland trolleybuses which resembled a motorbus - even down to having a bonnet and radiator!
The first day of operation of the Nechells route was Monday 27th November 1922.
I don't have a photo of no.5 on the computer, but here's identical number 6 in Washwood heath depot yard.
Are you able to scan your picture and show it?
 
That's a very nice view Kevin, at the Nechells route terminus with the trolleybus facing towards town. It may well be the first day, doubtful if it's the "first" journey as the service started before sunrise, and there would have been training journeys before the public service commenced.
 
Lloyd, Thank you for the information. My wife's Grandfather is the man on the left of the photograph. Can you tell from his uniform whether he was the driver or conductor of the bus ? We believe that at some Stage in his career he was a driver, but know little else.
His name was William Toone and was born sometime in 1896 in the Aston/Nechells area. We know he died on 12th September 1965. He played a few games for Aston Villa around 1919/1920 and we have a photograph of him with the 1920 FA Cup winning team.
We also have a photograph of him in an army football team and have memorabilia of him having played football in Poperinge in Belgium during the first world war in 1916.
Could you or one of the forum's other members point me in the right direction of researching his military history, as I would be intrigued to find out more about his involvement in the first world war and him playing football in 1916 in Poperinge.
 
Here's your photograph - the man on the left is the conductor, he is wearing a cash satchel and "Bell Punch" ticket machine. The other man is the driver, or "motorman" as they were called - note the different style of his uniform jacket, designed to be warmer as most motormen drove the open-fronted trams.

Trolleybus 5 OK 4827 Nechells terminus.jpg
 
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Another post card. Walsall Trolley Bus by G.S. Cooper circa 1949. It says it was the first 30 foot double decker on two axles.
 
Those 30' long, 8' wide Sunbeam trolleybuses were indeed beautiful vehicles, nicknamed 'Goldfish bowls' because of the curved glass corners of the driver's cabs. Here's a delightful film by Barry Coward of them going about their everyday duty, in the last days of trolleybus operation in Walsall nearly 40 years ago. OK there was a bit of wire hanging over the streets, but these silent pollution-free vehicles were replaced by older diesel buses (ex- Birmingham, you'll see a few in the film). Progress ? I think not.
Luckily one still runs at the Black Country Living Museum, Dudley. Another is under restoration at Aston Manor Transport Museum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r8Z3LzvLmM[video=youtube;_r8Z3LzvLmM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r8Z3LzvLmM[/video]
 
The attached photo and text below from the the Dover Express 7.7.1922 from another forum made me realize that there has not been much on trolleybuses on the forum (unless it is deep in a thread named something else). Yet Railless (as Lloyd states earlier in this thread), was a Birmingham company. Here one of their products is being tested in dover

Dover Express - Friday 07 July 1922

RAILLESS CAR'S TRIAL AT DOVER. The car the Ralless Limited have built for the Urban District Council of Ramsbottom was brought to Dover this week, so that it could be seen running under the Dover conditions. It is a single deck car holding some twenty-five passengers comfortably, but the type of body is made to order, and Birmingham, where a number of these cars are about to be put on one of the routes, have double deck cars with a roof and seating capacity of over fifty. The point about the railless cars is that rail track is not necessary, and in order to obviate going to the very great cost laying rails over the Pier Viaduct to the Marine Station, it is suggested that two or three of these cars should be bought and a service run between Worthington St. and the Marine Station. The only equipment required is the overhead wires, but instead of two wires it is necessary to have four, as the return current has to be sent through a wire instead of a rail. It is, therefore, possible, at a fairly moderate cost, to extend the system to other streets. A fairly good road is necessary, but if the system is adopted in Dover the fact that the roads will have to be kept in a decent order will be an advantage.

An extra wire had been placed between New Bridge and the George corner, and the trials were run this week on that route. But by means of a slide trailing behind on the rails the car could be run anywhere where there are trolley wires. The trials were uniformly successful, the car running very smoothly and noislessly, and starting off without the jerk that tram cars give. The advantage claimed for this form of traction over motor buses, which they to a great extent resemble, is that electrical power is much cheaper than motor spirit, and that there is nothing like the depreciation and high maintenance costs that a petrol engine entails, as an electric motor needing nothing to be done to it for a very long period. It is questionable whether the system could be put in force till the requisite parliamentary powers have been obtained, which would take nearly twelve months, although where the tramway powers are sufficient to cover certain things, the Ministry of Transport are allowing them to be run pending the provisional order being obtained.

The operation of the car at Dover has been in the hands of a tram driver, who has had a motor lorry experience during the war, and he found no difficulty in controlling it. If the system were in general use in Dover noticeable advantages would be (1). Noiseless running. (2). Absence of vibration to passengers, which is so marked with the ordinary tram cars. (3). Cars would keep to the rule of the road, instead of dislocating the traffic as the present system does. (4). Cars would embark and disembark passengers at the pavement kerbstone instead of the middle of the road. The disadvantage is the heavy cost of making the change. Yesterday there was a trial run with officials from other systems and to-day the members of the Council are to try the car.


Railless_trolleybus__being_tested_in_Dover_1922A.jpg
 
I don't think that Railless were a Birmingham based company rather that they were based in Rochester. Kent. They did however purchase the chassis frames for some early trolleybuses from Alldays & Onions who were based in Birmingham and manufactured cars, light vans and motor cycles until 1927.
 
Thanks for posting badpenny.
Actually I have seen 'some' of this photo. In a book on BCT's trolley buses only part of the photo is given, the cyclists at the left, the lorry and the women with prams are missing. So your photo gives a far more interesting scene. The tandem is not often seen today but was more common at the time of the photo The photo was, apparently, taken during WW2 and before June 1945. My archive photo is a little clearer and shows the bus at the other side of the turning circle as being lined out, so in the pre war livery. The bus, (42) OC 1142, entering service in January 1934 and lasting until closure of the trolley system at the end of June 1951, was repainted in June 1945. The bus near the cyclists was (73) COX 73, entered service September 1937 and had the distinction of being the last trolley bus to operate the 94 route (Albert Street to City Boundary). Also clearly seen is the white paint applied to traction poles, lamps standards and other road furniture. On the nearest traction pole, to the left of the tandem, is a black and white sign which reads "S" and SHELTER plus the arrow pointing in the direction of the shelter. I cannot make out what the lorry is for, maybe a builder or municipal vehicle?
 
An interesting shot, showing as it does (just!) that wiring extended past the terminus for a short distance as if the City Transport intended to extend to Elmdon Airport. Although outside of the City Boundary, the airfield was owned by the Corporation, so such an extention would be understandable. It never happened, though, and had it progressed to official applications to run would have been strongly opposed by the Midland Red company, with whom the Corporation had an agreement dating back to 1914 not to run outside of the City boundaries.
 
Radiorails said:
An interesting observation LLoyd. There certainly is a lot in that photo of interest, real history I think.
Click to expand...
In 100years time, people will look at this photo and give it the same reverence as we now give to photos from the early 1900s. This is social history in microcosm and as you say the tandem is particularly interesting, in all the photos on the Forum how many tandems are there?
Bob
 
1566827750045.png
A photo, by Phil in Old Street pics thread.
The photo shows a trolley bus (OC 1112 (12) (right hand side of photo) circumnavigating the islands at Lancaster Place and heading for its city terminus in Old Square in 1937. These buses, as recorded elsewhere on BHF, were withdrawn from service in December 1940 as part of wartime restrictions and replaced by bus route 43. Nechells trolleybus route 7 had replaced tram route 7 in 1922. Older buses were stored during the war and scrapped afterwards, newer ones were transferred to the Coventry Road routes. Few people are alive now that would remember trolley buses heading up and down Corporation Street.
 
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There are some interesting facts, in earlier posts, regarding the first trolleybuses to run in Birmingham. At their introduction in 1922 this type of bus was in its infancy. Quite a few demonstrator buses 13 (twice), 17/18/19/20 an 87 and another 17, were tried in the early days however the city had their original 12 (OK 4825 - OK 4834 1 - 12) of 1922 followed by 3 more (ON 2825 -ON 2827 14 - 16) in 1926. These buses were unique initially having upper deck roofs.All were withdrawn by 1932.
1932 saw a new 11 vehicles (OV 4001 etc) and later in the month another 5 (OJ 1012 - OJ 1016 (12 - 16). The trolleybuses were very popular with the public who appreciated the smoother ride than the trams they had previously had to use.
On commencement the overhead wiring was altered to accommodate the trolleybuses with two booms. The worn tram track was slowly removed. 1934 saw the expansion of the fleet as the Coventry Road routes were about to start, fifty buses (OC 1117 - OC 1166 (17 - 66) arrived with 12 in 1937 COX 67 - COX 78 (67 - 78) and in 1940 the last 12 ever purchased FOK 79 - FOK 90 (79 - 90). It appears that COX 76/77/78 ran on the Nechells route prior to its abandonment. Some of the overhead wiring was removed during WW2 to replaced damaged tram overhead elsewhere. At the end of the war the trolleybuses were not put back into service.
I am of the opinion that the patrons of the Nechells trolleybuses must have been quite disheartened when diesel buses replaced them due to the wartime emergencies issue that has arisen. Many of these buses were those of the wartime utility style, probably some with wooden slatted seats in the upper deck.
The withdrawal of the trolleybuses was due to the metal skates that were needed to allow the buses to get to Washwood Heath garage. Their journey was made using the tramway overhead with one pole for current collection and the skate running in the tram track at road level as the electrical return. The grit and other debris in the tracks were what caused the arcing and spark displays. No problem during the daytime but at night it was felt that it was a serious problem which could be visible from the air. Nechells possessed some very important industries, railway yards, water filtration and public utilities such as the gas works and electricity generation.
 
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