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Thorpe Street

debs_jj

proper brummie kid
hi - looking for more info on my great grandfather who married in 1907 at St Jude when he was living at 19 Thorpe Street.
Anyone know if this is the same Thorpe Street as the Barracks mentioned in this thread?
Surnames researching - Turner, Nicholls
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
It was the same one as the drill hall / barracks. No 19 Thorpe St was on the northern side, the same side as the drill hall on the map below. No 27 was the pub on the corner (The White Lion) and the numbers ran downwards approximately consecutively to the right, so it was probably the next or the next but one to the drill hall on the same side as the pub.
mike


 

debs_jj

proper brummie kid
Wow that was quick. THANK YOU.

His father was a publican so wonder if he ran the White Lion - although not convinced he was still living at home in 1907 when he married.
I am really struggling to find a birth certificate so thought I would learn more on the detail I do have hoping that it will lead me in the right direction.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Debs
The map I showed is basically one originally surveyed in about 1902, but additions made up to 1911. Although it shows the pub, and I mentioned it to help you get your bearings, the Birmingham directories list it in 1900, but not in 1904. Presumably it disappeared, as a pub anyway, between those years. In 1900 the landlord was.

1880 Mrs Charlotte Dixon
1883 Mrs Catherine Allen
1884 Joseph Davenport
1888 James Billinghurst
1890-92 Cornelius William Donovan
1895-96 Alfred Overs
1899 William H Kendrick
1900 John H. Preston
He could have been there in the gaps of course.
mike
 

debs_jj

proper brummie kid
hi - a big thank you for your help and such a quick reply. This is proving really hard work to track down my great grandfathers birth certificate.
 

farrell

proper brummie kid
I am new to this site and noticed,the information about Thorpe Street.
Part of my family tree is of my late mother-in-law Clara Reed,she was married in Birmingham in 1934.
We found out recently that she had been married to a James.C.Butler in 1919 at Aston registry office, Ihave just applied for her marriage certificate,and although there was a bit of a postal strike i received it in 2 days, thanks to the quick turn round by the registry office,they must have processed it within the hour.(wonderfull service)
I dont know how Clara and Mr Butler arrived in Birmingham,they both came from Halifax,on her cert, she gave her address as Back 21 Thorpe street, Birmingham.(could this have been behind a shop ?)
She did mention working at the Kings Head. was there a Kings Head in Birmingham ?.Wendy on this forum has a Howell could this be a link.
Graham
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Graham
X court or Court Y or back of no Z are all terms used to describe houses off the main street set in a small court . Court 21 Thorpe st was almost certainly one of the 4 houses in the yard to the left of the Drill Hall shown in the map earlier in the thread. They are not listed in the 1920 electoral roll so would have moved on (assuming that the address they gave was where they actually were living (which is not always so).
There are two Clara and James Butlers living together in the rolls in 1920., one at 27 court 3 Camden Grove and one at 34 Edward St.
There was at least two Kings Heads in Birmingham in 1921 (Hagley road and brearley St), but unfortunately not all pubs are listed by name in the directories, so there may be others
Mike
 

farrell

proper brummie kid
Thanks for your reply Mike, Interesting to note that there were two Clara & James Butlers in the area in 1920.I dont know what happened but my Clara was married again in 1934 and she said she was a spinster for the record.Her address in 1934 was 321,Golden Hillock Road,Sparkhill.
Her new husband was Walter.J,Reed of the same address.
Graham
 

angela burley

master brummie
When WW2 began my dad was called to sign up at Thorpe street barracks. On that day he made a lifelong friend ,Dennis Mcgauley of the Mcgauley cycle shop family.They both went from there to Enville Hall near Stourbridge for training,they both survived and were 90 this year. When ever we go to the Hippodrome we always park there and do a bit of reminiscing.
 

angela burley

master brummie
Sorry i forgot to say,names i am researching, Rollinson, Nicholls, Crutchley ,Weetman, Salter, all Birmingham
 
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S

Stroili

Guest
I know I'm a bit late with a reply but thought it might be of interest anyhow. There were 11 houses on the left-hand side of Thorp Street (coming down from the top off The Horsefair between the pub at the top and the Drill Hall). They were back to back houses and back of 21 would have been number 4. I know this as that was the house I was born in in 1950. They were the only houses in Thorp Street. If you need any further info on Thorp Street between the 1930's to 1960 I'm sure I could probably help since my Mom and her family were caretakers of The Drill Hall before moving to the houses higher up the street and Mom, now close to ninety has some very sharp memories. It was a street with quite a history, certainly in those years, since not only did it have the activities of the Drill Hall but it was also home to the Stage Door of The Birmingham Hippodrome so saw many many famous people including Danny Kaye, Frank Sinatra, a very young Cliff and the Shadows and Tommy Steele; Rudolf Nureyev and Margot Fonteyn and none other than Roy Rogers and Trigger and that was just a few! What memories and stories there are there believe me, for many of the people who lived in the houses worked at the Hipp. as it was known, both full time and part-time as and when. Let's say there was never a shortage of volunteers amongst the men [in the 50's] for dressers when the Follies Bergere arrived on tour!!! On the opposite side of the road was The Royal British Legion and [speaking only for what I can remember off the top of my head for the 50's] an Austin car showroom, the Fisherman's Club and Mintex offices.
 
W

Wendy

Guest
Stroili what fantastic memories I was fascinated when we parked in the car park which was originally inside the Drill Hall. My husband met a lady a few weeks ago also in her nineties who used to play piano and sing at the Drill Hall. Have you visited the Back to Backs in Inge Street they must be similar to where you lived although a bit done up!
 
M

minkymaid

Guest
stroili - my mother, father, grandmother and father, aunts and uncles and cousins all lived in the back to backs [court] in thorp street that you refer to from the 1920s up until demolition [i believe]. They worked at the Hipp as backstage hands, dressers and front of house, as well as their day jobs and drank in the Legion and the Anglers. The surnames are Sanders, Howe, Corbett and Lander. Perhaps you mum might remember Cissie Corbett or Gladys Lander for instance?
 
S

Stroili

Guest
Hi Minkymaid,
Not only would my Mom remember the people you mention but I do too and I'm thinking I know you too, in fact, only very, very recently I found photographs of a birthday party of mine in the 50's that have some of those you mention in them including Susan, Sandra, Sheila, Laura.
Gladys lived next door (the other side of the entry) and Mr and Mrs Saunders, Margaret and Frank, lived at the front of her house. Cissy lived in the corner with her son, Frankie, a particular favourite 'big boy' of mine, together with Audrey his sister, who also features in some of the photographs.
Not such a big world is it? If you would like to contact me other than through this site ( I forget to come on here often), my email is [email protected] I'd love to share a few more nostalgic moments and bring things up to date.
 

ChrisCharles

Descended Brummie
Hi Debs_JJ

!! My Great-Grandparents lived at 19 Thorpe St from approx 1855 - 1880 !!
Ralph Charlesworth was a Brass Founder & his wife, Sarah Ann Bate, was a Nurse.
1851 Census records them living with Grandma Bate in Edmund St.
1861 & 1871 Census records their stay at that address. In April 1880 they Emigrated to South Africa. I have the Ships Log of their arrival.
They took 8 children to SA, ranging from ages 22 down to 3 years old (my Granddad).
My Family & I are the first of their descendants to "Immigrate" back to England.

What I would particulary apprecite is :

1) Any photographs of 19 Thorpe St. We have no photos of the GG-Grandparents at all.I f you have any of the property I will gladly pay for copies.
Perhaps you could recommend a published History work that may picture the area for me ?

2) Ralph was a Brass Founder / Dresser. What Foundry would he have worked at living in Thorpe St ?

I have written & recorded a folk song called "Annie Dear".....a saga of their emigration. This can be played/downloaded from https://www.theufr.com (songs tab).

Regards

Chris Charlesworth

3) What Hospital would Sarah have been employed at living in Thorpe St.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Chris
You have Ralph down as a brass dresser by trade, but it appears he dabbled in other things. . The 1873 whites directory lists him as at 19 Thorpe St:
1873 Ralph Charlesworth pidgeon dealer.
Whites is often more comprehensive than other directories, so the fact that I do not have him listed elsewhere does not mean he did not carry out that trade in other years, but

The map c 1889 shows no 19. the large drill hall next door would not have been there (for most of the time anyway) when he lived there, as it was built late 1870s
Sarah is likely have worked at the General hospital or the Queens hospital , neither very far away. Later there was the Skin & Lock in John Bright St, but I think that opened too late to be considered a possibility
There were large numbers of brassworks around, it would be difficult to say where Ralph worked, but there is in 1876- 88 listed :
Charlesworth Thomas.brass & german silver chaser, 25½ Horse fair, so maybe it was a family trade., but earlier years it was too small to be listed in the directory.


(In 1862 there is a Thomas Charlesworth listed as a policeman in Reservoir road )
 

ChrisCharles

Descended Brummie
Hey MikeJee

You certainly are a Grandmaster. Thank You !

Granny Bate (Ralph's Granny-in-Law) was a Poultry Dealer living in Moat Lane. (I quoted Edmund St earlier, but that's where Ralph was in 1841 as an Orphan)
I bet he learnt the trade from her !!

Thanks again for the info. I'll get hold of a copy of Whites
 

rosie

brummie
Hello Mikejee,

I'm sorry to butt in , I just wanted to thank you for the map of Thorp St. as it shows "The Lord Nelson", where Nan was born in 1900, and various family members ran it prior to that.

(It's printed opposite the last "t" in street). I think the Ballet are there now, the map I have just shows a gap and "P.H."

rosie.
 
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