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They Were Caught In Our Old Street Pics...

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I enjoyed poring over the details too Maypolebaz. Little details like the stripes on the sleeves for long-service staff, wearing regiment badges, etc all help to build a background picture of the person in the photo. A very interesting site, and so full of information. Viv.
 
That's because those men had served in both the first and second world wars, when over a million men were in some form of military service, these men were pre WW1, the only war before had been the Boer War when Britain had the smallest standing army in the world so not so many to wear ribbons or campaign medals, the Zulu, Etheopian, Crimean, were to far back and the people to old to work in trams I would think.paul
 
The date is 1912 and one of the notable events that year was the sinking of the Titanic but I don't think BCT tram drivers would be parading in connection with that. One unusual thing in the photo is the writing on the R.C.Brintons building. The text runs off the end of the building but it may be a fold in the photo. I've had a quick look through the index of all the forum street pics and can only find one of Gt Charles St.
 
If that is Brinton's works , and not an advert on the wall, then the small house to the left must be Hills Menke & Co, which also served as the office of Carl Theodore Menke, the consul of the German Empire. I suspect in a couple of years time there would be somewhat less peaceful displays at this point. The opposite side of the road is where the Art Gallery was built. I don't think it had been completed at that date (please correct if I am wrong)
 
Suspicious Activities in Gt Charles Street ... Birmingham to Berlin ... Ex-German Consul's Alleged Trade With the Enemy.
According to The Singapore Free Press and Mercantile Advertiser for 22 September 1916, page 8, Carl Theodore Menke now the Ex-German Consul but still head of Hills Menke & Co was facing no less than 14 charges under the 'Trading with the Enemy Act'. It was alleged that the defendant had consigned packages of black plates to aliens in Schwarzenburg and Brunswick.
 
This has become very interesting. So the parade's probably not war related being 1912, so maybe it's a BCT related parade/issue. They're all lined up along a tramline, so could just be a coincidence of course, but wonder if it might be connected to the threat of competition from the introduction of buses in favour of trams? Or could it be connected with BCT acquisitions? Bit off the wall perhaps, but maybe they're waiting the arrival of some new type of tram or tram service (recently acquired by BCT?). Maybe they're the combined tram drivers of several tram companies acquired and brought together by BcT? Someone earlier on the thread pointed out the man looking expectantly in the other direction, almost like he's waiting the arrival of something in the distance. Viv.

Later addition. Is this connected I wonder?

"As the leases on the City of Birmingham Tramway Co.'s tracks slowly expired they were taken over by the Corporation. On the 1st January 1912 the operating rights on the last remaining lengths of track passed to the Corporation along with a number of the Company's trams and they were now in control of the tracks within the city boundary, which had already been expanded by the absorption of several neighbouring smaller authorities." (From Peter Gould's BCT site

https://www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/birmingham1.htm
 
Think we were posting at the same time Phil. What are black plates? Fascinating article about the ex-consul! Viv.
 
Hi Viv - I think you could be right about the possible reason for the parade taking place when the Corporation took over all operations of the tramways. I could imagine the tram drivers all being issued with standard uniforms and told to assemble to hear how things would be run now that the Corporation was in charge.

About Herr Menke trading with the enemy, it may have been reported in the Birmingham Mail or Post - with a suitable headline in the middle of a war.
Black Plates - All I can find about Hills Menke & Co is that they were manufacturers of Straight Razors, so the plates were probably metal.
Looking at the report in the Singapore Adviser, I notice that the plates were despatched in 1914 before the war started, so court proceedings two years later in 1916 may have been part of 'anti german' feelings.
The court proceedings were adjourned so charges may have been dropped.

Anyway, we've all had a good look and discussions about your photo .... :encouragement:
 
Thanks Phil. That's what's great about threads like this. Good to find out more about the hidden details suggested in photos. Hills Menke aspect interesting as I assume this would have been an Anglo-German company. I expect there were many companies subjected to the same attention during WW1. And with Birmingham's munitions history I suppose it's no surprise that the press/government would be on the look out for potential anti-German material. Viv.
 
Viv
I'm not sure if it would be an Anglo German company. If Menke was charged with trading with the enemy, then surely it must have been an English-registered company ?? or not - anyone know ?
 
A number of companies with Anglo German connections had to split once war broke out so there could have been a link.
 
Oisin said:
Musta been a right sad old time with no wars to celebrate, eh? :blue:
Click to expand...
If you allow that man up to 20yrs service, then I think there were a few odds and ends going on during his service Oisin. He could've been in the Sudan, the Boxer Rebellion, a bit of unpleasantness with the Ashanti. Apart from fighting the Boers there were a few campaigns going on in India at that time too!
 
Yeah, there's always summat going on and, because we learn nothing from history, nothing changes - it's still the same today. :blue:
 
As the the saying gos he who has both eyes on th future is blind in both eyes but he who has one eye on the future and one eye on the past is only blind in one eye
 
paul stacey said:
That's because those men had served in both the first and second world wars, when over a million men were in some form of military service, these men were pre WW1, the only war before had been the Boer War when Britain had the smallest standing army in the world so not so many to wear ribbons or campaign medals, the Zulu, Etheopian, Crimean, were to far back and the people to old to work in trams I would think.paul
Click to expand...

This website https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_campaign_medals lists over 20 campaign medals awarded between say 1870 and 1906 any of which could have been held by a man working on the trams at that date. In Dads Army corporal Jones' medal where authentic for his army career.
 
Quite true Mr Grain, but as I have stated, the main colonial wars were ,mainly in the 1870's /80', not many "Indiamen" returned to the UK, after retirement and the African campaign's were mainly raised regiments with local "Askari's" with British Officers, given the time line not many of these would have been with a tram company, some British Regiments were involved, but as the time difference between the 70/80's is around 40yrs they would have been fairly old to be Tram drivers, only in my opinion of course, but had there been as many ex servicemen working then there would have been a lot more with medals, "in my opinion".
 
DavidGrain said:
This website https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_campaign_medals lists over 20 campaign medals awarded between say 1870 and 1906 any of which could have been held by a man working on the trams at that date. In Dads Army corporal Jones' medal where authentic for his army career.
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I remember reading that L/Cpl Jones' medals were authentic to the character too, David. Would you happen to know what "his" medals were ? (I'm betting that one of them would've been the Khedive's Star).
 
maypolebaz said:
I remember reading that L/Cpl Jones' medals were authentic to the character too, David. Would you happen to know what "his" medals were ? (I'm betting that one of them would've been the Khedive's Star).
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Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance-Corporal_Jack_Jones

I read that the medals were authentic and had to be locked in a safe when not worn as they were worth in excess of £10,000

Jones wore the King's South Africa Medal which I had seen previously in a regimental museum and it amused me that the ribbon was the colours of the Irish flag
 
oldMohawk said:
About Herr Menke trading with the enemy
Click to expand...
We didn't mess about in the old days ... Birmingham resident of 43 years interned in December 1915 ...
In answer to a question in parliament July 1916, the Home Secretary answered :-
Of the four unsalaried Consuls of German nationality, three were sent back to Germany in exchange for British Consuls, and the fourth, Carl Theodore Menke, the German Vice-Consul in Birmingham, is now in internment. Menke, who is sixty-three years old, was exempted from repatriation last summer on the recommendation of the Advisory Committee, in view of the fact that he had resided here for forty-three years, had two British-born children, and was well vouched for; but in December last it was decided to intern him and he is still interned.
Ref: https://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1916/jul/31/german-consuls
 
Nice piece of info Phil. Wonder how he was 'vouched for'. Must have been very difficult in the middle of WW1 to get someone to vouch for you. It also makes you wonder what happened to him and his family after the war. Can't have been an easy ride. Viv.
 
Vivienne14 said:
Nice piece of info Phil. Wonder how he was 'vouched for'. Must have been very difficult in the middle of WW1 to get someone to vouch for you. It also makes you wonder what happened to him and his family after the war. Can't have been an easy ride. Viv.
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I seems Mr (Herr) Menke would not have had an easy time. After probably travelling each day for years on a tram from a nice house in the suburbs to his office in Gt Charles Street, he was eventually sent to an Internment Camp somewhere in England or even the Isle of Man. Conditions in the camps were very basic and unpleasant as related in an article from
https://eprints.aston.ac.uk/5613/1/YearbookIntern5.pdf
Maybe Menke never got his position back in the company, the above link reports that even the german lager brewer and Managing Director of Tennants Brewery in Glasgow was told he could not be reinstated after the war. Phil.
 
The thread's got a bit serious lately, so time for a touch of trivia !
There are quite a few animals caught in the old street pics, mostly horses, quite a few dogs and even half a dog walking into the corner of one of Bernie's pics !
However, I've only spotted one cat in all the old street pics on the forum - a close-up of the moggy below - click on it see the pic.


Am I the only cat
in a street pic ?


 
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Thats a weird cat stat oldMohawk - Perhaps the risk of getting a cat in a pic is low because theyre not prowling around much in the day ?
In the pic .. is tiddles facing the wall thinking ... what'd I come up here for ? ... its like a senior moment I think.
 
Nerves of steel in Steelhouse Lane. Have to admire that man casually standing with his camera on the narrow ledge of the Wesleyan General Assurance building.
The 'Last Tram - The End' was probably more interesting than the film 'Twice Upon a Time' showing at the Gaumont that week.
img861.jpg
 
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I have an old photo with a sheep on in a market place and 2 photos, of one of my great grandfather dipping sheep and my great gran with Billy the ram. My partner has a nice photo of her dad with a calf people working on the farm and herself with some hens. They are almost bigger than she is.
 
Evenin' Old Mohawk. It wasn't in Brum I think it was in Shropshire. I will check. There is an old Cov print of pigs being herded in Butcher Row which is now called New Buildings in the town.
 
hi nico ;
i myself are incline to go with old mowhawk its looks like the old crown pub; and the next building down from the crown looks like the building of the Lloyds bank that is still standing today ; and they would have been heading down to the holding penns of the market and the rail way arches where the cattle men of yester years brought by transport to the birmingham market for sales best wishes Astonian;
 
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