The Square Old Square

[anthea]

What an interesting picture. I never knew these shelters existed so thanks Lyn for the enlightenment. I was born a couple of years before the war started, so I expect my mom wouldn't travel into town in those days from Harborne, preferring to shop at the local Co-op and on the Flat nearby where she went to work. Were these type of shelters only in and around the town centre does anyone know?

 

[cookie273uk]

Re Lyns pic, notice the white painted bricks on the corners of the shelters, you must remember because of the strict blackout regulations there would be no street lights and all the shop windows would be blacked out so it would be pitch black at night. Eric

 

[Astoness]

hi eric i would imagine it could have been quite scary in pitch black darkness..

 

[oldMohawk]

Old Square in 1955 and I remember making a call from one of those 8 telephone boxes.

 

[horsencart]

A new use for old phone boxes in Birmingham

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dofartshavelumps/19694590544/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dofartshavelumps/19694587044/in/dateposted/

 

[philbee]

Afternoon Lyn

looking at the photo i don't remember the air raid shelters as i was only a twinkle in our dads eye! born 1948 but looking at the photo where that truck is coming out that road was very narrow and it used to scare the living daylights out of my sister as there was loads of big horses with their waggons delivering goods, i can,t remember the road name but i can still visualize the scene.

Phil

 

[Astoness]

hi phil how strange because i was only thinking about that shelter the other day...as i said earlier in the thread i would think it must have been a scary place to be stuck in especially in darkness...it is only in recent years after much research that i now understand the full horrors of war and will always have respect for those that either fought in them or lived in fear of the dreaded bombs..

lyn

 

[mhemery]

We had an old air raid shelter in the middle of the court at the back of our house, and one over the road up the retreat, similar to the one in post #1 brick with reinforced concrete roof, this was early sixties. although they were sealed off us kids managed to get in.

 

[brummie nick]

When I left school in 1948 one of the first jobs I had was has an electricians mate was at Richard Lunts in the old square , it were a wholesale warehouse .
In the air raid picture #1 I think the road that the lorry is in would have been the Lower Priory


Nick

 

[brenda barr]

Burlington st girls school had an air raid shelter built at the back of the playground, l know we would dare each other to run through it...it was so dark and scary, never got me to run through it, l was always scared of the dark...those brick shelters all looked the same and thank goodness we never had to use it...Brenda

 

[brenda barr]

Nick, my girl friend Molly Hinton worked at Lunts ..l would wait for her every Saturday in the priory to get off work and then it was off to Lewis's basement record dept.....good memories..Brenda

 

[brummie nick]

Brenda, I remember Lewis’s record Dep’t they had small cubicles that you could go in and listen to the records before you bought them.{ that's if you ever intended too}

 

[philbee]

Thanks nick

That was the name of the street it seemed very narrow!

Phil

 

[Phil]

Lower Priory was a very narrow street sandwiched between the Stork Hotel & Kings Hall Market, it had a couple of interesting shops, one was a place that sold spirits like whisky, rum. gin & vodka straight from the wood. You took your own bottles and got them filled it was a lot cheaper than the named brands. The other place of interest was one of the first curry houses in Birmingham,

 

[brummie nick]

Thanks for the name of the Hotel Phil, I couldn't remember it.

 

[BrumMack]

Aidan

I cannot vouch for the veracity of my statement other than to say it is the one that was attached to the photo, but as we all know that often can mean very little.

But here is another photo showing the Stork Hotel on another corner of the square perhaps this will help you sort it out.

Phil
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Hi, the caption of this photo states the Stork Hotel is on the right. But if we compare the buildings to the the photo

Aidan

I cannot vouch for the veracity of my statement other than to say it is the one that was attached to the photo, but as we all know that often can mean very little.

But here is another photo showing the Stork Hotel on another corner of the square perhaps this will help you sort it out.

Phil
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The caption this photo states that the Stork Hotel is on the right. But if we look at the photo of the Stork Hotel with the coach outside, uploaded in Aidan's original post on this thread, that building is the one on the left of this photo not the one on the right.

 

[mw0njm.]

i loved see the old square when i was a kid. watching the sally army.and going in the market.

 

[Astoness]

The Square was for a long time one of the most prestigious addresses in Town. By my reckoning it is now under The Priory Queensway, lost in the 1870s development of Corporation Street area.

What might be interesting and useful is if the forum can identify the people that lived in the Square from BMD, Census etc. as well as share any paintings, sketches, photos, adverts etc.

According to Upton's History of Birmingham John Pemberton owned and developed the land (built by Thomas Kempsey) and lived in Number 1. Then in 1747 Edmund Hector (Surgeon & friend of Samuel Johnson who visited often). Then Joshua Scholefield (one of the Town's first MPs). Then Joshua's son, William (The Borough's first Mayor then an MP).

Numbers 3 & 4 were later converted into The Stork Hotel whose stableyard was made into a Circus called the Amphitheatre that also hosted scientific lectures and demos.

Another house was occupied by Henry Bradford (Quaker & Property Developer after whom Bradford Street is named).
Another Quaker Sampson Lloyd III also lived in the Square.
As did Thomas Unett whose death at the siege of Sebastapol is commemorated by the Obelisk in the Cathedral (and yes Alf I'm sure this is on another thread...)

So can anyone add to the names and pics here please?


Pic 1 The Square 1720
Pic 2 Bradford's 1751 map
Pic 3 Panoramic map dated 1845
Pic 4 NE side of Old Square looking down Lichfield St
Pic 5 The Stork Hotel c1870

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cant be certain but i am thinking that unett st in newtown was named after the thomas unett mentioned in this post

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

The Cresshull family seem to have had a very active role in the Square’s society in the late 1700s and early 1800s. Would the ‘Assembly’ rooms have been part of the Stork Hotel ? Viv.

 

[BrumMack]

The Cresshull family seem to have had a very active role in the Square’s society in the late 1700s an early 1800s. Would the ‘Assembly’ rooms have been part of the Stork Hotel ? Viv.
View attachment 131180View attachment 131181

According to Wikipedia, originally opened in 1740 called 'Sawyers Assembly Rooms' after the first owner William Sawyer. In 1765 the Duke of York visited and described the room as 'mean.' As a result new assembly rooms were built at the Royal Hotel, Temple Row in 1772. Despite this Sawyer's rooms continued. Sawyer's assembly rooms were taken over by James Cresshull in 1779 and the Cresshull's operated the rooms for a further 75 years (i.e. to c.1854). For a bit more detail see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawyer's_Assembly_Rooms

 

[Vivienne14]

Fascinating Richard, thank you for the link. Despite the Duke of York’s criticism the place continued for 75 years ! And it continued despite intense advertising by Dee’s Royal Hotel promoting the same activities I.e dancing, cards, music.

In September 1952 the Birmingham Gazette posted this advert - 200 years old. In its day, it sounds quite a classy place, although with cards (and gambling ?) etc, who knows ? 2/6d in 1752 sounds like quite a lot of money to me.



Viv.

 

[pjmburns]

According to Google - in 1750 £1 was worth about £180 in today's money. So 2s 6d (25p) was equivalent to about £45.

 

[Vivienne14]

By 1835 Mr Martin (Proprietor?) was charging 3/6d. So an increase of 1 shilling on the 1750 prices. Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks Mike for the map. Do you think the building alongside (left) of your pink mark would have been connected to 10 The Square ?

Viv.

 

[mikejee]

Sorry. My earlier map was wrong, as I mixed up Upper and Lower Priories and have deleted post. The 1841 Pigot's directory shows Thomas Cresshull , dancing master, at 10 Old Square. So presumably the Assembly Rooms were at no 10, not at the Stork. The map below shows approximate position of no 10. There are 4 buildings between Upper Priory and Lichfield St, nos 8,9,10 & 11. No 10 must be about where I have marked in red, though likely extended into the large building shown behind.

 

[mw0njm.]

where was richard lunt and co ltd. in old square

 

[mikejee]

Cannot place it exactly on a map, but it was on the north side between Corporation st and Upper Priory

 

[john knight]

Looking at the square on a map it was in the top right corner, we used to do a lot of work for them, Mr Lunt was always in our workshop, giving us orders for deed boxes which we had to put names on.

 

[mw0njm.]

Looking at the square on a map it was in the top right corner, we used to do a lot of work for them, Mr Lunt was always in our workshop, giving us orders for deed boxes which we had to put names on.

thanks for reply

 

[Vivienne14]

Just been reading about the history of the Square in Joseph McKenna’s book: Birmingham The building of a city. A few key points about the first occupants of the Square. There were originally 16 houses, built in 1707 by Thomas Kempsey, the designer was (thought to be) William Westley. John Pemberton (named as one of the residents), bought the land for the development of this planned Square from the Priory of St Thomas.

The first residents were gentlemen and industrialists (particularly ironmongers). Butchers, bakers or blacksmith shops were forbidden. Residents couldn’t have muck heaps, dung heaps or keep pigs.

I’ve put the names of the first residents on Wm Westley’s drawing, showing the position of their premises. (Presumably ‘north prospect’ means the top of the drawing is north ?).

Viv.