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The Square Old Square

Aidan

Aidan

master brummie
The Square was for a long time one of the most prestigious addresses in Town. By my reckoning it is now under The Priory Queensway, lost in the 1870s development of Corporation Street area.

What might be interesting and useful is if the forum can identify the people that lived in the Square from BMD, Census etc. as well as share any paintings, sketches, photos, adverts etc.

According to Upton's History of Birmingham John Pemberton owned and developed the land (built by Thomas Kempsey) and lived in Number 1. Then in 1747 Edmund Hector (Surgeon & friend of Samuel Johnson who visited often). Then Joshua Scholefield (one of the Town's first MPs). Then Joshua's son, William (The Borough's first Mayor then an MP).

Numbers 3 & 4 were later converted into The Stork Hotel whose stableyard was made into a Circus called the Amphitheatre that also hosted scientific lectures and demos.

Another house was occupied by Henry Bradford (Quaker & Property Developer after whom Bradford Street is named).
Another Quaker Sampson Lloyd III also lived in the Square.
As did Thomas Unett whose death at the siege of Sebastapol is commemorated by the Obelisk in the Cathedral (and yes Alf I'm sure this is on another thread...:rolleyes:)

So can anyone add to the names and pics here please?


Pic 1 The Square 1720
Pic 2 Bradford's 1751 map
Pic 3 Panoramic map dated 1845
Pic 4 NE side of Old Square looking down Lichfield St
Pic 5 The Stork Hotel c1870

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I have abook called 'The Building of a City' - The Square was the first planned estate apparently. It seems the lands of the Priory of St. Thomas the Apostle came into the possession of the Holte family in 1547 - who then sold the estate to the Smallbrook family and then in1697 John Pemberton the Quaker ironmonger bought the estate and laid it out for building. As said Thomas kempsey built sixteen houses, completed by 1707 - buyers agreed not to use the houses for butchers, bakers or blacksmiths shops not erect muck or dung hill or keep pigs.
The first occupants on south-west angle were: John Pemberton ironmonger, John Pemberton gentleman, Samuel Swynfen doctor, Daniel Whalley ironmonger.
South-east angle were: Mrs Wall, Mr Samuel Stewart, William Alcock gentleman, Richard Baddily.
North-east angle were: John Wilkes, Henry Bradford, Mrs Beal, Joseph Farmer ironmonger.
North-west angle were: John Fidoe ironmonger, Mr Eborall gentleman, James Billingsley gentleman a nd
Randle Bradburn ironmonger.
So the residents were a mixture of gentry and industrialists - the houses were originally leasehold for a 1,000 and the purchase price in case was £100.

Hope that's interesting,
Sheri
 
sheri said:
- buyers agreed... not erect muck or dung hill or keep pigs...
Sheri
Click to expand...

Sheri
That would have kept my relations out then!

That's really great info thanks on the first residents and on the estate. The pictures show the central area was lined with iron railings as were the frontages and I wonder if one of the many Ironmongers amongst the first batch of residents supplied them?

Your list of initial occupants might give some clues for people to check their trees and as the houses were occupied for nearly 200 years there will be several occupants over that time so am hoping other names will appear too.

I think the Stork Hotel sounds an interesting place and wonder if anyone has info on that too esp the circus and the scientific demos carried out there
 
Here are a couple of photos of Old Square. One looking toward the Minories, the building on the left would soon go so that Berlin House could be built to be eventually replaced by the Lewis's building. The building on the right would be replaced by Newbury's which would also be replaced by Lewis's and the Minories itself would be covered over by the connection of the two buildings.

Phil
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Thanks Phil - that makes two ends of the Square which is great.

I mentioned that Thomas Unett lived in one of the houses at some point. I assume that Unett Street was named after he or one of his Military family? Also does anyone have some pics of the inscriptions on his Obelisk in St Philips please (I have done a search of threads but can't find anything on him or his Obelisk)
 
Aidan

I would imagine this is what you want, and that would be an image of Thomas Unett that you can see on the front of the monument. I have to say that I lay around the base of this obelisk many times as a teenager and I never once looked at it.

Phil
Since (see post 18) found not to be Unetts memorial

The%20Memorial%20Colm.jpg
 
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Thanks Phil - that's the one & a nice shot too. Is there a close up of the inscription(s) by any chance?
 
No Aidan,

I'm sorry, but I don't have a close up of the inscription this is what one Birmingham web guide says about the monument.

"There are relatively few monuments to the Crimean War, which seems surprising considering its scale and significance. This red granite obelisk, standing at the edge of St Philip's churchyard in the city centre, is one of them. It particularly commemorates one Lt Col Thomas Unett, a Birmingham man who was killed at the siege of Sebastopol in 1855. The obelisk is over 20 feet high and bears the names of some of the most famous battles of the war: Alma, Inkerman and Sebastopol"

Phil
 
This is an interesting topic Aidan - my families wouldn't have been let either.
My book doen't say much more about the Square itself but it does say about further develpments around the Square.
The Upper Minories and Upper Priory were develped by Richard Pinley, Stephen Newton and Thomas Lane. In January 1707, Newton & Pinley bought 19 yards of Upper Priory designed for a street leading off the Square into Whitehalls Lane. In February 1707, Lane bought 15 yards and Newton & Pinley a further 14 yards. They agreed to b uild houses facing the street - 'the buildings to be as high and regular as those now built' and again restrictio ns forbidding letting to a butcher who keeps a slaughter house or a smith who would keep a smithy. Newton St named after Thomas Newton was the next street developed on the estate - Newton was also responsible for laying out Lichfield St between the Square and Newton St. Lane built along St. John St. & St. Thomas St. William Westley was credited the design of the Priory Estate and of building houses in Temple Row.
I hope someone finds their rich ancestors living in the Square.

Where were the Minories.
Sheri
 
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Phil - Thanks for that, like you I have idled past it many time but never really looked

Sheri - Thanks also. The Minories are shown on the SW face of the square leading to Temple Row/Alley in the 1731 map above.

Found a little more info so far in connection to Lloyds Bank: "Samuel Lloyd III, the son of one of the founders of Birmingham's first bank, who lived at No. 13, on the north side, before he joined the general flight to the suburbs. It was during a visit to Lloyd here in '76 that Samuel Johnson threw a fit while Boswell read him a passage from Barclay's Apology: ol' Dictionary got so riled that he grabbed the book, flung it to the ground, and stomped on it. The next morning Johnson was still fuming, so Boswell decided to get clear of him by visiting Soho." on https://mises.org/daily/3072
 
Thank you for that Aiden. What were the Minories - was it anything to do with the Priory
Sheri
 
Sheri

The Minories is a road that runs from old Square to Bull Street opposite Temple Row. When Lewis's Department square bought out nearly all that side of the square they built two walkways over it to join the store together.
 
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sheri said:
Thank you for that Aiden. What were the Minories - was it anything to do with the Priory
Sheri
Click to expand...

Sheri - I believe the name is connected with the original Priory. Its name is derived from the Minoresses. A "minoress" was a nun. :angel: I think the Upper & Lower Minories were two paths to the Priory entrance.
 
I think the houses were originally if not completely uniform would have probably been symmetrical around the Square which makes it difficult to know which of the four sides one is looking at. Although they were extensively modified over time. As to whether the photograph may have been reversed I can't say (I did try to think about it but my head started to hurt!)

Dent's book referenced above (which I have only browsed so far) makes a small mention of The Square on pages 106/107 and references an advert of 1748 (poss from The Gazette) mentioning a couple of names: Mr Sawyer (maybe a surgeon with a name like that!) and Mr Baddeley (possibly the Richard Baddily that Sheri mentioned earlier)
 
Ah - just refound the picture on page 149 and it is subttled "In which Edmund Hector was the host and Samuel Johnson the guest". So this must be No1 The Square (Pemberton's original House) and hence in the SW corner from Sheri's post - depending on how it was numbered I would imagine the road to be Upper Minories (assuming no reversals!) and if Phil's description is correct then it could be the same view
 
Aidan

I cannot vouch for the veracity of my statement other than to say it is the one that was attached to the photo, but as we all know that often can mean very little.

But here is another photo showing the Stork Hotel on another corner of the square perhaps this will help you sort it out.

Phil
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Aidan said:
According to Upton's History of Birmingham John Pemberton owned and developed the land (built by Thomas Kempsey) and lived in Number 1. Then in 1747 Edmund Hector (Surgeon & friend of Samuel Johnson who visited often). Then Joshua Scholefield (one of the Town's first MPs). Then Joshua's son, William (The Borough's first Mayor then an MP).

Numbers 3 & 4 were later converted into The Stork Hotel whose stableyard was made into a Circus called the Amphitheatre that also hosted scientific lectures and demos.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the additional photo Phil.

What confuses me then is the numbering system if No.1 was Perberton's/Hector's and 3 & 4 were made in to the Stork how did the Numbering system work and what do these pictures tell us.

E.g. If there were four houses on each side, and No1 was in the SW corner, then maybe it was on the corner with Lower Priory in the SSW, No 2 next to it in the corner with 3 & 4 being on the adjacent side of the Square in the WSW on the corner with Upper Minories (as pictured). But where does that leave the picture by Dent? There appears a road on the right of the building which cannot possibly be the case if the above numbering scheme is to work (or if Upton hasn't made a mistake...again). Bit of a head-scratcher at the moment...
 
Aidan

When I recently posted the photo of the obelisk in St Philip's Churchyard I was mistakenly under the impression that it was the monument to Thomas Unett. I have since learnt that that particular monument was for F.G.Burnaby who was killed on a mission trying to rescue General Gordon.

Unett's is further over in the churchyard opposite the end of Cherry St and is made of pink marble and smaller. The inscription says,

"Thomas Unett C.B. Lieutenant Colonel of the 19th Foot Born in Birmingham 12th November 1800 Was mortally wounded at the siege of Sebastapol while leading the British column to the final assault on the Redan on the 8th of September 1855. His friends and fellow townsmen dedicate this obelisk to his memory. As a record of the noble example of one who chose the foremost place in the path of duty and met his death with the calm undaunted spirit of a Christian soldier"

The photo attached is one of Unett's obelisk.

Phil
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The Midlands Historical Society are advertising a book:

Memorials of the Old Square, Birmingham (1897)
A record by two notable local historians on the passing of the Old Square in Birmingham, which was demolished as part of the development of Corporation Street (nothing ever changes !). The Old Square had been one of the more genteel and well-to-do squares, and contained many fine Georgian and Queen Anne buildings, many of which appear in photographs in this book. The book records the inhabitants of the Square so if your ancestors lived in the Old square then this may contain some gems for you.

You can search for individual names or browse the index to see the list at https://www.midlandshistoricaldata.org/SHPLoader.aspx?x=books_birm_2.html&sc=1024 (about halfway down) and I am trying to work out how to access the online version of the book which looks most interesting
 
Something of the history of The Square seems to be captured by this 1967 sculpture by Kenneth Budd apparently sited on one of the nearby underpasses. Not sure I can decipher all it is trying to tell me. Does anyone have a description (or even a clue)?
 
Aidan i think this was in the Lower Priory Subway there were also Mosaics which i think were buried when the Subway was filled in it was on an American theme i don,t know what happened to the sculpture. Dek
 
Looks like the sculpture went with it Dek - there is a description of its elements here https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=kenneth budd 1967&f=false and gives some further names and addresses that were represented on the sculpture:

1. Edmund Hector (Surgeon/Doctor) and his famous guest Dr Johnson. Later William Scholefield the first Mayor in 1838

9. John Wilkes (Lockmaker) 1713-1734

11. A Ball was held for the Duke of York in the Great Room of here

13. Samuel Galton (Lunar Society member) 1780

14. Samuel Lloyd (Banker) 1770 and Ms Lloyd who eloped from there 1774

15. Dr Withering, whose house was damaged by the Rioters of 1791
 
A snippet I found by chance. In 1750 there were 2 assembly rooms - 1 in Bull St and 1 in the Square which was the most fashionable but a remark by the Duke of York who attended a ball there in 1765, he said 'Birmingham deserved a superior accommodation, that the room was mean and the entrance meaner' led to its decline and resulted in the building of the Royal Hotel in 1772 which had an assembly room 'which would not disgrace the Royal presence of the Duke's brother'.
Sheri
 
pmc1947 said:
Aidan

I cannot vouch for the veracity of my statement other than to say it is the one that was attached to the photo, but as we all know that often can mean very little.

But here is another photo showing the Stork Hotel on another corner of the square perhaps this will help you sort it out.

Phil
Click to expand...

It's taken a while but - how about this - The house to the right of your photo (opposite the Stork) is the same as Dent's No1 The Square - but the latter is reversed because it is an etching cut directly into the block without first reversing the image and so becomes reversed when printed - phew
 
old square surface shelter..


oldsquaresurfaceshelter002.jpg
 
Lyn, I have actually been in that shelter with my Mum and sisters whilst shopping in town, I think it was Christmas 1941 I would have been 11, daylight raids were fairly rare if I remember, turned out to be a false aiarm, we had quite a few of them (better be safe than sorry !!!) Eric
 
oh thanks for your memories of the shelter eric...and yes you are quite right it was better to be safe than sorry..looking at the size of it i would think it held quite a few people....

lyn
 
I believe it had the Capacity painted over the door, 200 comes to mind but could be wrong, having said that I cannot imagine a warden turning anybody away. I remember rows and rows of those benches and the rather dim lighting and a cold damp smell inside. Although it was 70 years ago some things just stick in your mind. I believe these surface shelters were all over the place. At 11 years old you did not realise the danger and thought air raids all very exciting !! When our house was bomb damaged and we had to live in a caravan for a few weeks we thought it was a great adventure, my mum and Dad probably thought different . Eric
 
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