THE GARDENERS ARMS BUT WHERE?

[mikejee]

Struggling to find a Gardeners in Birmingham Directories from 1855 to 1910.

Not really surprising with respect to this pub, as it is a beerhouse (see licensing board), and these were not normally named in directories

 

[Vivienne14]

Of course we haven’t yet run out Gardeners Arms in Birmingham ! The search continues ...... how about Woodcock Street, there was a Gardeners there recorded in newspapers from 1867 til at least 1895. Viv

 

[Pedrocut]

Not really surprising with respect to this pub, as it is a beerhouse (see licensing board), and these were not normally named in directories

That may be so, but there are a couple of much mentioned Gardeners’ Arms in the Birmingham Press, which are very likely to be Pubs, and do not get a mention in the Directories as far as I can see.

The Publican of the Gardeners' Arms, Woodcock Street, was up before the Beak in 1892, and other mentions suggest that it being a Pub.

The same applies to the Gardener's in Henry Street which was big enough to hold election meetings.

So we can dismiss these two as being the one in the picture

 

[Vivienne14]

Snap Pedro ! And the Henry Street Ashted Gardeners was there from at least 1852 until at least 1880. Plenty more to chew over. Viv.

 

[Pedrocut]

1886

 

[Vivienne14]

I know we closed down the Bloomsbury Street Gardeners as a possibility but it is the only ’Gardeners Arms’ Showells pub in Birmingham listed on the brewery history list below (#8). The list was linked in Jukeboxes earlier post 11.

List of Showell's Brewery Co Ltd pubs - Brewery History Society Wiki

breweryhistory.com

Just for the record. It could of course just be a coincidence. Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

Now fixated on the lamp above the door ! It just isn’t right. Such a large and elaborate lamp for such an, allegedly, small concern. I still believe this was once part of a larger pub. Viv.

 

[Pedrocut]

Now fixated on the lamp above the door ! It just isn’t right. Such a large and elaborate lamp for such an, allegedly, small concern. I still believe this was once part of a larger pub. Viv.

A "globe" is also shown in Post 2 for the Gardeners Arms in Solihull.

 

[Radiorails]

A "globe" is also shown in Post 2 for the Gardeners Arms in Solihull.

But the photo in Post 2 suggests Lines's were the brewers?

 

[Radiorails]

Now fixated on the lamp above the door ! It just isn’t right. Such a large and elaborate lamp for such an, allegedly, small concern. I still believe this was once part of a larger pub. Viv.

Bearing the photo in post 2, I suggest that lantern was more of an optional choice for pubs and places, in particular those that wanted to be seen and easily found. We need to consider than in those far off days street lighting, by gas, was not what we experience today ( light pollution in fact) and the streets were generally, in the more residential areas, poorly lit, The older types of gas lamp also flickered, especially when a mantle needed replacing.
Given that there was some sort of brewery (pub or seller) every 100 yards it seems I also suggest that the large lantern, giving out a reasonable light might be an advert for the place in itself and we now that we humans are often drawn to a light of some type. Most of us don't like the dark!
I wonder what the business next door did? Was it another string to Mr. Evans' bow?

 

[Pedrocut]

Bearing the photo in post 2, I suggest that lantern was more of an optional choice for pubs and places, in particular those that wanted to be seen and easily found. We need to consider than in those far off days street lighting, by gas, was not what we experience today ( light pollution in fact) and the streets were generally, in the more residential areas, poorly lit, The older types of gas lamp also flickered, especially when a mantle needed replacing.
Given that there was some sort of brewery (pub or seller) every 100 yards it seems I also suggest that the large lantern, giving out a reasonable light might be an advert for the place in itself and we now that we humans are often drawn to a light of some type. Most of us don't like the dark!
I wonder what the business next door did? Was it another string to Mr. Evans' bow?

Yes it could well be just a coincidence. And of course in the days of no lighting, and for those who couldn’t read, it would be recognized by its pub sign.

 

[Spargone]

As the Showell's lamp would have been supplied by the brewery it might be a case of 'one size fits all'. The style of doorway and upper floor windows might match other buildings on the street, (wherever that might be!).

 

[mikejee]

Correction to incorrect post that has now been deleted
Mea Culpa. I must have had a temporary blindness. There WAS another beerhouse in Woodcock St , but, somehow, my eyes slipped past it on Kellys, The census confirms that no 58 was the Gardeners Arms. It disappeared between the 1900 & 1903 Kellys. On the 1950 map the house blocking the court next to it had been removed, but no 58 was still there. However the pub seems continuous on the other side (left had side of photo) with the next building, so does not look like pub in photo. Sorry for error

 

[Astoness]

thanks mike for now i think the gardeners arms woodcock st could be the one as i dont think the pub in my pic is any larger than what we can see..if as you say it went by 1905 mr evans may then have moved to 157 moseley st just my thoughts as we still have no definate proof...still searching for old photos of woodcock st..

lyn

 

[KateM]

Hi Lyn,
I coincidentally came across your post while searching Bloomsbury St, where my family lived. In 1871, there appears to have been a Gardeners Arms at 43 Bloomsbury Street.
Kate

 

[Astoness]

hi kate thats great thank you...i think bloomsbury st was mentioned earlier on this thread as a possible location for the one in my photo...nice to see one mentioned on a census though...i will follow this up later on

lyn

 

[cabbagecaff]

Gardners Arms was at 58 Browning st, Ladywood

 

[Christine Warner-Spry]

The word on the side of the lamp looks like Showells. This was a brewery started in Oldbury but at some time operated in Birmingham. The name appears in a number of threads but I haven't found anything to identify the pub.

Further info - see http://breweryhistory.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_Showell's_Brewery_Co_Ltd_pubs
The Gardeners Arms appears to have been in Bloomsbury Street (Aston/Nechells area) but I wouldn't know if this was the pub in the photo.

My family are also searching for info on the Gardeners Arms as we know our Grandfather Alfred Bennett said he was born in that Pub as his father ( same name ) was the Publican .
The little references my cousins have found they believe it was on the corner of 65&67 Henry Street & Great Brook Street .

 

[Christine Warner-Spry]

thanks mike i was getting confused lol....given the fact that Kelly's Directory 1913 lists a Herbert Evans, Beer Retailer at 157, Moseley Street birmingham i think the gardeners arms in my photo was taken in birmingham but as kellys do not give the name of the pub it may not have been in moseley street there again it may have been mike is it possible to post a map showing 157 moseley street please...just wondered if it was a small or large property...thanks mike

lyn

Our Gt Grandfather Alfred Bennett was a Publican at the Gardeners Arms in (Aston area) our Grandad his son also named Alf told family he was born in the Pub .
Have tried to search info , not much to date except this ( see image ) says 65&67 Henry Street & Great Brook Street

 

[mikejee]

The 1901 census shows 65/67 named as the Gardeners Arms.


And the 1891 census shows Landlord Alfred there and his son Alfred , 10 months old also present