• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

The City of Birmingham - 46235

46233 has been withdrawn from main line work for repair and is currently at the Midland Railway Centre Butterley.

The plan is for the loco to be re-painted back into LMS Crimson livery, it has previously appeared in wartime austerity black
and BR Green. Presumably it will revert to the original running number 6233.
 
I can see both sides to the preservation arguments. 1) The City of Birmingham locomotive, which is now at The Think Tank in Birmingham, represents one of 3 Coronation Class LMS locomotives in existence. Thanks to Billy Butlin (of Butlin's holiday camp fame), Duchess of Hamilton and Duchess of Sutherland were originally purchased by him for viewing at his holiday camps (I forget which). Since then, they have been acquired by diffrent groups and undergone several restorations. Duchess of Hamilton is now in the care of the National Railway museum, York and has been cosmetically restored to its original streamlined condition. Duchess of Sutherland, I believe, is being used on the main lines for special trains. City of Birmingham, in my opinion, should be returned to main line condition and used, as mentioned by another contributor, on special trains in and around Birmingham, the West Midlands and beyond. However, as pointed out by Think Tank, this locomotive is in "withdrawn from British Railways" condition and on static display. Full restoration of this locomotive would result in it being stripped down to basics and rebuilt in "almost as new" condition, rendering old parts of the locomotive to the scrapyard. I rest my case(s).
 
With the Science Garden in front of it, it's a bit difficult to remove the locomotive from Thinktank. They would also have to remove a wall!

 
City of Birmingham locomotive is, at the moment, in restored "cosmetic" condition, but the it cannot be returned to steam in it's present condition, without a full restoration, or rebuild.
 
Since retirement from British Railways, Flying Scotsman has had three very wealthy owners - the first of whom it virtually bankrupted - and finally the National Railway Museum. Its recent overhaul - funded mostly by you the taxpayer - cost around 4 million pounds. That is why there is so much hype about her, in the hope that she can earn a living.
 
Last edited:
Radiorails said:
Since retirement from British Railways, Flying Scotsman has had three very wealthy owners - the first of whom it virtually bankrupted - and finally the National Railway Museum. Its recent overhaul - funded mostly by you the taxpayer - cost around 4 million pounds. That is why there is so much hype about her, in the hope that she can earn a living and
Click to expand...

I believe I am right in stating that there is very little left of the original Flying Scotsman.

I am a very keen steam enthusiast, but Duchess of Sutherland is still running, and the re-streamlined Duchess of Hamilton (work undertaken by Tyseley), also available, if needed, perhaps we should keep City of Birmingham where it currently stands. After all, it is now a unique locomotive in its own right.

Just my opinion.

Eddie
.
 
I was looking at the Flying Scotsman last week, very splendid, very restored and even more expensive. I am pleased that it is well loved and well used.

My view is, that restoring objects like the City of Birmingham does not add to saving the heritage of the railways. It great for the people who like riding on steam trains, but for it to run on a modern railway, it would need a significant amount of the original parts replacing, at vast expense in money, and vast expense in losing its originality. Its out in the world competing with a number of other very well restored steam locos.

Its 'as withdrawn for service condition', places it in a unique position in that it is one of the few remaining locos like this that is accessible. I like the fact that you can see all the marks of its working life and maintenance. Lots of hammer marks and number stamps indicating that people worked on this loco and left their mark. Layers of history that have built up over many years. I believe that we should both respect and pay homage to those everyday people who worked and maintained these locos in their working lives.
 
Radiorails said:
Since retirement from British Railways, Flying Scotsman has had three very wealthy owners - the first of whom it virtually bankrupted - and finally the National Railway Museum. Its recent overhaul - funded mostly by you the taxpayer - cost around 4 million pounds. That is why there is so much hype about her, in the hope that she can earn a living.

I think that the tax payer has reaped the benefit from Flying Scotsman's numerous rail tours. No one should be allowed to "throw away" history, even if one's preferred method of travel, or interest, is not in railways. Preservation (of all industrial kinds, especially) is to show future generations what happened in Britain in the 19th and 20th centuries. I believe that the various railway preservation societies, heritage railways and National Railway Museum are doing an excellent job in keeping our railway past alive.
Click to expand...
 
Having read other contributors' comments, I'm inclined to believe that the City of Birmingham locomotive should be kept "as-is" and in the safe keeping of the Birmingham Think Tank, for all to see (number stamps, dents, hammer-marks and all!). After all, we have, at the moment 2 other representatives of this locomotive class which could run on main-line specials, after overhauls and restorations. It's not cheap to maintain a steam locomotive in working order, these days, and I'm sure the various owners and operators of such locomotives would be more than willing to receive contributions from members of the public to help them. After all, as they say, "once it's gone, it's gone!" So...look on line and follow up on the various schemes and projects. They're there for all to see. If you're interested, get involved and pass on this history to the upcoming generations. They will be grateful.
 
On a few occasions I've wondered if there were any original photos of this Locomotive being named officially at New Street Station in March 1945 by Alderman Wiggins-Davies ??? one would have thought there might be some tucked away in an library archive of Birmingham Mail perhaps ???? obviously being a Brummie Trainspotter in the 1950's and Tamworth (in the spotters field) being one of the places to see this racing along the low level heading an express........always exciting !!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top