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Gun Trade Factories

I can only assume, David, the name Curzon Street is to avoid confusion for passengers who might end up in the older Moor Street when they really wished to travel on the new HS2 line. Whilst the plans show the stations as adjacent I am sure taxis for Moor Street do stop in front of the station whereas the new Curzon Street presumably has a separate and dedicated taxi loading area.
 
Actually Alan, the Taxi Rank will be in Park Street at the Moor Street end. I show below the plan for the HS2 Station and you will see that I have marked with a green circle; Old Curzon Street Station, Moor Street Station and the site of the Pavillions Shopping Centre where it is planned that there will be an entrance with a passageway under Moor Street Queensway. Labels for the Proof house are shown bottom right of the plan. There will be a link bridge over the Snow Hill lines to connect the old Moor Street Station to the new station. It looks like Fazeley Street, the original name of the HS2 station, with be for international arrivals and departures (if they ever link up HS1 & HS2)
Curzon Street HS2 Station.jpg
 
The main entrance, the plan suggests, is a little way from Moor Street entrance where the Fazeley Street access only is. I see the taxi pick up points but I am not sure whether this is a one way or bi-directional street. (Park Street?).
I notice another taxi drop off point mentioned in Curzon Street.
I might live long enough to read about HS1 completion but I will be surprised to see HS2 completion date. But, you never know.......:D
Personally I like the revival of Curzon Street as a station name, after all it appears to have been the original terminal of the first main line, from the Capital, to reach the city and the original structure somehow has managed to survive. That
maybe because the city probably had no jurisdiction over it. ;)
https://www.libraryofbirmingham.com/article/historyofcurzonstreetstation/curzonstreetstation

I know folks here just love pics, well, there are lots here of Curzon Street.
https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/curzonstreet_goods.htm

Apologies for going off topic. Maybe the posts re Curzon Street need relocating?
 
My ancestors the Mountfords (several generations of from David through Albert Edward to William Page Mountford) were all Gun Percussioners who lived on Bath Street from the 1820s through to the 1870s.
 
I learned in my family history research that two sides of my maternal ancestors were in the gun trade in Halesowen - several on "my" humble ancestors' side were gun barrel filers and nail makers at Halesowen Mill in the mid nineteenth century, and their richer cousins owned Rose and Rose gun barrel works at the same time and on an adjacent site. But I can't find any record of whether they helped one another.
 
From the Evening Despatch, May 1915, a report from the annual meeting of the gun trade, and the effect of the War on the Birmingham gun-making trade.

“Since the declaration of war demand for sporting guns had practically ceased, on the eve of what promised to be an exceptionally good shooting season, both in the country and for export, which was of more importance in its volume....In no previous war had there been so little employment for the gun maker, nor, indeed, at any other time. In the Crimean War, the American War, and the Franco-Prussian War nearly every maker turned his attention to the hand-made weapons which were acceptable at that period, and a rich harvest was reaped both by masters and men.”
 
From the Evening Despatch, May 1915, a report from the annual meeting of the gun trade, and the effect of the War on the Birmingham gun-making trade.

“Since the declaration of war demand for sporting guns had practically ceased, on the eve of what promised to be an exceptionally good shooting season, both in the country and for export, which was of more importance in its volume....In no previous war had there been so little employment for the gun maker, nor, indeed, at any other time. In the Crimean War, the American War, and the Franco-Prussian War nearly every maker turned his attention to the hand-made weapons which were acceptable at that period, and a rich harvest was reaped both by masters and men.”
......crafted gunsmiths made millions of hand crafted weapons .only to be destroyed after the war
 
In August 1914, the father of the Birmingham gun trade, Henry Jones, dies at the age of 102...

View attachment 140120
any more imput on this gun smith. Pedrocut?i cant find any
Far
 
The newspaper archives give another obituary and also a couple of snippets that show his business went into bankruptcy , so presumably he worked for others after this.

Aris.Birm Gazette.1.2.1866.jpgBirm post.20.8.1866.jpgBirm. Gazette. 12.6.1868.jpg
 
There is a Henry Jones Birmingham gunmaker from Hockley mentioned in the bankruptcy courts of the 1860s, and also what may have been his father in the 1830s
 
Henry Jones v Samuel Colt?

1835...Year of claimed invention (by Henry JONES) of the ‘self-acting revolving pistol, in Birmingham’. (The Ironmonger, 24/12/1910, p566)

(Research Press, Firearms, Long Range Target Shooting & Associated History)
 
In 1835 a Chas Jones, of Whittall Street, met the turkish embassador for purpose of examining Mr Jones's beautifully, newly invented patent gun....his wish Mr Jones should adopt his invention to military purposes...
 
In 1835 a Chas Jones, of Whittall Street, met the turkish embassador for purpose of examining Mr Jones's beautifully, newly invented patent gun....his wish Mr Jones should adopt his invention to military purposes...
i would love to see his invention.
 
Henry Jones v Samuel Colt?

1835...Year of claimed invention (by Henry JONES) of the ‘self-acting revolving pistol, in Birmingham’. (The Ironmonger, 24/12/1910, p566)

(Research Press, Firearms, Long Range Target Shooting & Associated History)
there is a club in the quarry here that fire them muzzle loaders.and black powder weapons....i tryd them.na ill stick to my blunderbuss
 
In August 1914, the father of the Birmingham gun trade, Henry Jones, dies at the age of 102...

View attachment 140120


One of the nice things about the BHF is that it can unearth information that is not mentioned by previous persons who have looked very closely into certain subjects. Here we have a clip from 1914 that mentions a Henry Jones, the “King of Birmingham gun making” and yet he does't seem to get any mention in the “gun trade" information which is easily available. In the clip Henry Jones is said to have invented the self-acting revolving pistol in 1835.

However there is the another clip from 1835 that reports a Charles Jones of Whittall Street demonstrated the pistol to the Turkish Ambassador. There are references from at least 1833 of a Chas Jones, gun maker and medalist at 16 Whittall St and St. Mary's Square, and in 1862 at Alma Street. There is also a mention of a Henry Jones in 1849 at Park Road, 1855 at 6 Court Lench St, 1873 at 41 Islington Row, and 1890 at 10 New buildings Price St.

Of course Charles and Henry could be brothers, or father and son, or even the same person.

In the first clip it also says that in 1858 Henry perfectected a double grip action breech loader. There is a mention of a “Jones screw grip action, a patent 2040 of 1859” on the vintage Gun site below
Looking on further vintage gun sites it reveals....

“The screw grip was first patented in Britain by Henry Jones in 1859 - an "underlever screw grip for breech loading actions" - typically referred to in the trade as "Jones underlever" or "lever over guard" as Lagopus correctly stated. The Jones is a screw grip action. It's primary (and only) locking system is a screw grip.”

So we have the basis for anyone who has an interest in vintage guns to delve further.
 
One of the nice things about the BHF is that it can unearth information that is not mentioned by previous persons who have looked very closely into certain subjects. Here we have a clip from 1914 that mentions a Henry Jones, the “King of Birmingham gun making” and yet he does't seem to get any mention in the “gun trade" information which is easily available. In the clip Henry Jones is said to have invented the self-acting revolving pistol in 1835.

However there is the another clip from 1835 that reports a Charles Jones of Whittall Street demonstrated the pistol to the Turkish Ambassador. There are references from at least 1833 of a Chas Jones, gun maker and medalist at 16 Whittall St and St. Mary's Square, and in 1862 at Alma Street. There is also a mention of a Henry Jones in 1849 at Park Road, 1855 at 6 Court Lench St, 1873 at 41 Islington Row, and 1890 at 10 New buildings Price St.

Of course Charles and Henry could be brothers, or father and son, or even the same person.

In the first clip it also says that in 1858 Henry perfectected a double grip action breech loader. There is a mention of a “Jones screw grip action, a patent 2040 of 1859” on the vintage Gun site below
Looking on further vintage gun sites it reveals....

“The screw grip was first patented in Britain by Henry Jones in 1859 - an "underlever screw grip for breech loading actions" - typically referred to in the trade as "Jones underlever" or "lever over guard" as Lagopus correctly stated. The Jones is a screw grip action. It's primary (and only) locking system is a screw grip.”
So we have the basis for anyone who has an interest in vintage guns to delve further.
[/QUOTE.......... Thanks P. very interesting stuff........
 

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Re: gun trade fatories

Hi all. A quick plug on the back of this thread but if you want to know more about the Gun Quarter and gun-manufacture in Birmingham generally (BSA et al) then please have a look at my website. I have tried to pull as much information toghether as possible to record things as they are now and to also show things as they were 'then'. One of the earlier threads mentioned something about the "old decrepit factories that weren't much loss anyway": however when you look at some of the buildings such as W W Greeners I think people will maybe see otherwise - such a loss. Anyway it is birminghamgunmuseum.com and as always ALL comments (and contributions!) will be gratefully

The link in the above post no longer works, but came across this one that gives a short history of early gun making in Birmingham...
 
From the site in the above post...

“By the middle of the seventeenth century Birmingham was becoming established as a gun-manufacturing centre and in 1689 a Government contract was undertaken to produce military small arms. Later in 1693 a larger contract was awarded whereby Birmingham gunsmiths agreed to deliver 200 weapons per month for a year.”

The Birmingham Gazette in September 1865 gives the letter sent to Roger Newdigate in 1689. It goes on to describe and name the five Manufacturers given the contract. William Bourne, Thomas Moore, Jno West, Richard Weston and Jacob Austin.

[The five invoked the corporate identity as “The Company of Gunmakers in Birmingham.” [Empire of Guns, Priya Satia (2018) ]

5ED69622-B40C-434F-8EF6-66B222ED0C24.jpegAD3066F5-841B-439F-A809-47B346E083F6.jpeg
 
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