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Sutton Coldfield to Stirling Motorail Car Sleeper

doug1944

doug1944

master brummie
Hi
Does anyone remember the evening Motorail train (I think it went on Sat) which carried peoples cars in vans whilst the passengers had sleeping berths. It left Sutton going north via Lichfield and because of the slippy start through the tunnel was always assisted in the rear by a banking (or `pusher`) engine. We used to wait for the banker to come back on the other line through the station, the loco crew had big grins on their faces as they knew that they had given a good show for the spectators. Plenty of steam, smoke and wheelslip ! I remember that the Porter (Johnny Forsythe, a wonderful Irish chap) used a lighted `Evening Mail` instead of a lamp to send the Motorail away ! I think this service ran from late 1950`s until mid 1960`s. Anyone got photo`s?
 
Not seen it myself - But I believe to-wards the end of steam the train loco was an A3 serviced at Aston, up to then quite rare in the B'ham area. Would love to see some photos.
 
Not Sutton Coldfield terminal I don't think Doug, but here's a picture of how it was done generally in the days when one's car got looked after executively with a proper compartment. In later years one's motor simply got tied down to a wagon.
View attachment 65123


Here's the publicity that went with attracting punters to use the service
View attachment 65124

(Items property of the National Railway Museum)
 
for British Rail's long-distance services that carried passengers' cars. The business operated as part of the InterCity sector. It had originated from the 1955 introduction of The Car-Sleeper Limited between London and Perth. Due to the enginemen's strike that summer establishing the precise start date is uncertain but it was during June. The Motorail brand was introduced in 1966 with BR press releases and the opening of the London Kensington Olympia terminal. Motorail services operated from London to a number of towns and cities including Penzance, Plymouth, Fishguard, Carlisle, Edinburgh, Perth, Inverness and Fort William. A short lived service from London to Glasgow was introduced in the early 1990s. A variety of rolling stock, both open and enclosed, was used. Many routes were operated with overnight sleeper services.
Usage on many routes had declined by the early 1990s. The services operated at a significant financial loss, with no services remaining by the time of rail privatisation. First Great Western relaunched a service from London Paddington to Penzance as part of their Night Riviera overnight sleeper service in 1999, but later withdrew it at the end of summer 2005.
From Wikipedia
 
I think there was at one time a motorrail service from Kings Norton probably to the West Country. Can anyone confirm this ?
 
pistonvalve said:
Not seen it myself - But I believe to-wards the end of steam the train loco was an A3 serviced at Aston, up to then quite rare in the B'ham area. Would love to see some photos.
Click to expand...

Can't help with the photos but saw two A3's that had arrived on Aston Shed after hauling the Stirling - Sutton Coldfield car sleeper iin the early sixties. The first A3 was 60088 Book Law, followed 2 -3 weeks later by 60077 - The White Knight.
60088 did a further 2 or 3 trips before the car sleeper was shelved. Can anyone check their shed ref' for me and let me know where their home base was!
 
G'day Colin,
Many thanks for the info'
Web site looks really interesting - will spend some time on this, thanks fisho
 
DavidGrain said:
I think there was at one time a motorrail service from Kings Norton probably to the West Country. Can anyone confirm this ?
Click to expand...

There used to be a Motorail service that ran from Sutton Coldfield to St. Austell, I may be wrong but I think the rolling stock used to be stored at Kings Norton sidings but I cant recall that it was a loading point.
 
Re the picture of a Vauxhall driving into the van (post #4), there's a shot of a Jaguar Mk 10 loading in the same place on this webpage. The Vauxhall has a Birmingham registration, the Jaguar a Coventry one.
I've tried to trace the area by the name on the warehouse behind, Taylor Byrne and John Inns Ltd, but other than fining they were a agricultural foodstock company formed in c1946, had company no. 00419001 (an English, not Scottish company number) and were dissolved some time ago, I've got nowhere.
 
Lloyd said:
Re the picture of a Vauxhall driving into the van (post #4), there's a shot of a Jaguar Mk 10 loading in the same place on this webpage. The Vauxhall has a Birmingham registration, the Jaguar a Coventry one.
I've tried to trace the area by the name on the warehouse behind, Taylor Byrne and John Inns Ltd, but other than fining they were a agricultural foodstock company formed in c1946, had company no. 00419001 (an English, not Scottish company number) and were dissolved some time ago, I've got nowhere.
Click to expand...
For some reason this photo reminds me of Walsall maybe Station St. Dek
 
Lloyd
For the benefit of others could i ppoint out the missprint, it is Turner Byrne & John Inns Ltd
Mike
 
Thank you so much, Mike - research is far easier with the right name!:D

Turner Byrne & John Inns Ltd , forage merchants of London were on the list of Tradesmen in the Royal Mews Department permitted to style themselves " By Appointment to Her Majesty The Queen" or "By Appointment to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II" published in the London Gazette for 15th July 1955, which suggests a southern firm.
 
Turner Byrne & John Higgs were at Provender Mills, Lough Rd, Islington London N7 (phone NORth 4061 - I located them via a 1950 London phone book!) and there was a rail yard at the junction of Lough Rd and Hornsey St, which is now a modernised road/rail freight interchange facility. Caledonian Road is behind the yard. I am sure that was the location of the photos above. The company details above are correct for the firm.
 
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Lloyd
The building in the picture looks like a typical victorian building such as a corn store where rail lines entered the building. This fits with the rail spur on the 1957-62 map below, where the building could be the shaded one with rail entry next to the rail spur. It is at just te right position if the cars were being loaded on the spur
Mike

mapc1957probpositionofTurnerByrneJohnHiggswereatProvenderMillsLoughRdIslington.jpg
 
Spot on with the map Mike! The area is totally rebuilt now, there was no clue as to where the warehouse had been.
Strange that the pictures were taken there - the details I can find of the London Terminals do not mention that site, Kensington (Olympia) 8 miles away was the main one for northbound, apparently. Perhaps it was a publicity event.

Volvo 'Amazon' and Morris Oxford / Austin Cambridge estate loading Motorail at Kensington (Olympia).
Map of Motorail services, 1972.
 
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I have read about this fantastic service and wish it was still availble I believe there was also a Contenental service, and you could go to the south of France too.
As mentioned before by George, "what cost" in 2007 I traveled by train from Salzberg to Wien, Bucherest, Budapest, Prague, Berlin, London for less than £200 all in, Virgin non book in advance cost Cambridge to Glasgow £214.00????????????
paul
 
Hi Dave,
What a cracking photo ! I`m pretty sure that is Sutton Coldfield yard, I seem to remember the ramp being there long after the tracks had gone and it became a commuter car park. It also shows that Brittania`s sometimes worked the service. I would assume the banker would pull the vans backwards out of the yard onto the main line, then the Train engine would back out, couple up to the train and the whole lot complete with banker would go north through the tunnels ( rising gradient and curved) with the banker working back wrong road through the station afterwards. Good fun!
 
:( Yes sorry to mention it is Sutton Coldfield, typical fair was 14 pound`s for a driver and a car :)
 
You wait ages for one, and then...

Another pic, possibly at the Islington site, is here

The chap back to us, dark coat and hat, white scarf is in the Jaguar picture as well. (post #11)


...and another!!
 
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.....and if I'm not "overloading" our journey so to speak, recognition to the Brewin Books stable (1990) is due in this addition to our portfolio. Date not exact, but post-1965 owing to the Morris Oxford(?) numberplate. More London to Scotland examples later.View attachment 66899
 
this has to be 'the stirling' i watched from my grans back garden ( hillaries rd erdington) at a point just downhill from erdington station . i can confirm it was usually a britannia on the front !. most commonly 70023 venus , 24 vulcan , 45 ,lord rowallan , 48 the territorial army 1908 1958 . the train crossed slade road bridge then faced a severe curved uphill gradient towards erdington station . the exhaust was volcanic ! innocent days !
 
Hi Guys.
Nice to read the interest in the Sutton coldfield Stirling motorail service. I was a passed cleaner at Aston & worked the turn in 1963 & 1964 on a few occasions. We would go light to sutton & stand in the bay platform until the assisting engine came up & got the train ready for us, then would pull it out & we would follow it out & couple up then pull forward into the station & wait for departure time. I can`t recall the formation of stock but I think it was about 6 coaches & 7 car flats. When we left the assisting engine would give us a push up through the tunnel & then drop back wrong road. The route was lichfield ,wichnor jnct, burton on trent & relief at derby by leeds men. The only engines that I worked on on that job were Brittanias, 70047 & 70048 they had 9 ton coal capacity tenders & coal pushers.

The last time I worked that turn was with driver Brian Newman & we were told that it was the last time that a steamer would be on it. If any one has a photo I would love a copy.

Best wishes Phil Gloster.
 
nice to hear that phil , 70048 was a regular and always well turned out . what puzzles me somewhat is that the train slogged up the gradient towards erdington station hauling stock ! sunday tea time , 1963 / 64 .
 
Hi,

Just picked this up when looking for info on the Sutton Car Sleeper. I used to work at the station 1962/63 so remember the service, but as a booking clerk we didn't deal with the tickets. I used to work in the small booking office on Platform 1 for the morning rush hour and then in the main office. I do have some photos of 70048 after arrival at Sutton during 1963. I think at one time it ran three times a week - definitely twice and went to Stirling, maybe also Perth. Mostly powered by a Balck Five but Scots and Jubilees also made appearances. On departure the train engine and coaches backed out of the bay platform and then into platform 2 (Lichfield Platform). The second loco then drew the CCT vans out of the yard and attached them to the rear of the train before giving it soem assistance out of the station. I think later in its life the Car Sleeper service used open bogie wagons.
 
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