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Stour St Ladywood

S

sheldontony

master brummie
As I have had a few days to myself recently I decided to go through some old documents relating to my deceased father.
One of these is a form indicating he was transferred to the Army Reserve in 1946. This gives his address as Park Place, Stour St, Ladywood, Birmingham.
Anyone have an idea where Stour St was please?
 
Hi Sheldon Tony
Stour street comes under Ladywood in those days it was Ladywood Birmingham 18 before postal changes came into force
And it was situated and around spring hill ,and the ajoing spring hill passage that ran into it
And then it became a radio us of cope street and Springfield street and king Edwards rd and monument road

Tony which way did you travel to it on your journey what you seen if you found it on your trip was not like it is today nor kingedward road
The only original is the spring hill passage which they have altered and I can tell you tony I went there last year and I cryed to see what they have done with the street
And of kingedwards red a complete wastage of time and effort and money
I lived on kingedwards red as a kid growing up and all most all my mates lived in stour. Street we was on the block
And it also had alleyways and what we called the double knacks you could go up and entry in stour. Street and come out of an entry
Next to Albert mosedales house into cope street or you go and come out in Springfield street by another old friend whalley Watkins
Whom we called the fonce dressed in leather jacket and dark sun glasses all weather sadly Whally got killed in a car crash in the 1960,$
We used to play tracking through those entry and alley ways quite often it was a close community everybody knew each other
Street after street not like today's population of the sad human race community's have long gone
I would be very interested to know which way you went to stour street look forwarded to hearing from you
I am still in touch with Albert mosedale we used to play cricket and foot ball down these big yards and terraces as well as having huge bonfires
Best wishes Astonian,,,,,,
 
Thanks for helping Astonian but I have never been to Stour St. As I said, I am going through my late fathers papers, he would be 94 now, and found the address when he left the army. He went in 1940 and I am interested in his background and wondered where he had lived. I will be thinking tomorrow at the remembrance service of the years he gave up to defend his country.
 
Shelsontony
Have examined the details of Stour st and found that Park Place must be the 4 houses marked in blue on the c1913 map below

map_c_1913_showing_park_place_stour_st.jpg
 
There are some pictures of Stour Street on the Old Ladywood website
https://www.oldladywood.co.uk/stourstreet.htm

Mike, on one of the pictures towards the bottom of the page (the picture to the right of the White Swan picture) is a row of houses with factory chimneys in the background could they be the houses you have marked in blue on your map?
 
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Hi mike
Can you enlarge on this map please because as I see it the top in blue was should have been monument railway sideing
Belonging to monument road rail way station and on opening of cope street
And the houses in the early 1900 s was Albert mosedales family

I wouldpersonaly say its the pink area where the house would have been four house into stour where there was an entry
Which went up I to some gardens what I would like to see a bigger picture of the bottom of stone street to confirm
What was the road missing on the map at the bottom and that would have been the bell pub the start of stour street
And the name of the street was the bottom of kingedwards red and ran into spring hill passage
Have you not got one of the later maps for the twenty or so ,
Also I am thinking about this map you have put up that may be for your dated period as said there was an iron works
Well from the start of cope street from one end from monument road there was a big huge wall in black bricks
Had been built at least three hundred feet high all down cope street passing Springfield street and stour. St up also passing steward street
When the road goes up hill to eyeria street so I wonder if that was because of the iron works listed on your earlyer dated map as I seen
I think it was number 47 stour street whom my old friend lived in there name was the memory,s
But they lived there in the fifty,s that I know but so going further back down the red is where I first thought of our friend Tony's relies
Lived originaly at 97 perhaps the house number change later then and I think it was the white house family whom ran the corner shop
On stour street and cope street end facing that huge wall and Albert lived about ten houses from them and the twinns brothers
The jinks family was next to Albert mosedales family so I think may your iron works was there before the monument rd
Railway hence monument lane was on the cope street hope you can sort this one out best wishes. Alan,,,,,,Astonian,,,,,,,
 
Hi pollypops
I have just sent my bit in on thread and I have just seen your valuable thread for tony
And I have to say a big thank you because you have put valued into from Ladywood site and more so from old school friends
And friends of my brothers and myself enamel john day and his family and brothers and Janet and the kanesfamily
As we was all good friends at school and my best mate was tony memory whom lived closed to these family's and closer to lanes
I wonder whether or not it may have. Been ken taylor or kenn Pitt whom gave this info and the map of stout street to Ladywood site
I will have to log on and get in touch with them all and my you her brother whom worked with Michael day
Its a small world so let's hope we have cracked the case for tony its.ate now so I will be off to bed shortly so I will good night
And look forward tomorrow best wishes Alan,, Astonian,,,,,
 
Polly
I agree that this looks very much like the houses in Park Place. It does not seem to fit any other place on Stour St.
Alan
Not quite clear as to your request, but have enlarged area to include monument road station

map_c_1913_showing_stour_st_and_monument_road_station.jpg
 
I just found this thread, so sorry if everyone has moved on. I agree with Mike for the location of Park Terrace. Stour Street was numbered from 1 (White Swan on the corner of King Edward's Road) along the SE side to Cope Street then back along the NW side, the last property (no.79) being by the iron works. Electoral rolls list residents of Park Terrace between No. 70 and 78 Stour Street. These households might be too early for Tony and Alans' memories, but here's the end of the 1920 electoral role. stourstreet67-79electoral1920.jpg

The photo mentioned by Pollypops on the Old Ladywood site is correct, slightly higher up the page there's another shot taken from the same location (corner outside the White Swan) dated 1959 after the properties in Park Terrace were demolished - you can clearly see the school beyond.
 
Thanks for this pimpernel, you probably wont believe this but I have just discovered my grandmothers name, Ada, living at 2 park place. Due to a family dispute I was never allowed to meet my grandfather. My grandmother had died before I was born and that side of my family was never discussed. Can anyone tell me how I can find out more information about her?
 
(Sorry I meant Park Place, not Terrace!)
Tony you should be able to find your grandmother on the 1911 census assuming she was alive at that time, I'll do you a look up on Ancestry. A few more details would help - your grandmother was Ada Harris, Frederick Harris is at number 2 Park Lane too, that is your grandfather I assume?
 
Hi again. In 1911 there's a Fredrick Harris (aged 27), wife Ada Harris (26), living at 3 Bk 24 Grosvenor St West, Ladywood, with two children, Frederick (1) and Ada (3). Frederick is a 'Stationary Engineman' in the cycle trade - (possibly at the nearby Hercules cycles where my great uncle worked). Is this the right family?
 
Hello pimpernel. yes my grandfather was frederick harris living at 2 park place. As I say until I saw your post I had no idea what my grandmothers first name was. I would be very pleased if any more information came to light. My father was William and he had a brother Frank and sister Doll.I think there may have been another brother.
I have no idea of the frederick harris from grosvenor st west ladywood you mentioned in post 15.

Thanks or your help
 
Hi Tony, I had a look through the BMD records and found a number of potential leads to identify your grandmother's maiden name, but there are a number of Harris families in Birmingham, to be sure of the correct name needs a little more detail. You mentioned the anniversary of your father's birth which suggests around 1919, is that right? Can you say which month? Did he have a middle initial? "Doll" would be a nickname, possibly short for Dorothy or Doris perhaps? Can you say if Doll and Frank were older or younger than William? If you could confirm some of these points I should be able to identify your grandmother.
 
Thanks for all your help on this Pimpernel, much appreciated. My fathers dob was april 15th 1920. Frank was his older brother but not sure about Doll.
 
OK, got it! The good news Tony is that you have more aunts than you thought! Unfortunately were some infant mortalities. Here we go (I'm including references in case you want to pursue any certificates for confirmation etc):

Your grandmother was Ada Curtis, born in Birmingham, June quarter 1885 (Birmingham 6d 11), daughter of Amos and Rosetta Curtis.
The 1891 census shows her with her parents and sisters Alice and Ada, at 4 back of 36 Sheepcote Street.
The 1901 census isn't quite as clear, but she appears to be working as a servant in Balsall Heath, claiming to be 18 (in fact she was 16).

She married Frederick Percy Harris at the Birmingham Registry Office on 16th December 1905 (December quarter 1905, Birmingham 6d 332), one witness being Rosetta Curtis, presumably her mum.

The 1911 census return I mentioned above is correct - in that year they are living at 3 back of 24 Grosvenor St West, Ladywood. Ada is 26, Frederick 27. Three births are listed but only two surviving, so sometime before 1911 there was an infant death.

Frederick's First World War army records have survived (service number 43427), which state he enlisted as a gunner in the Royal Garrison Artillery on 18th August 1914 for eight years, aged 29. He gives his occupation then as "Civil Occupation (Engineer)", and appears to have served at Woolwich, then at Le Havre. By 1914 the family are living at 2 Park Place. The records include death records of two more of his children.

These are children I found:
Ada, born 16th December 1907, died 21st February 1915, aged 7, of acute laryngitis and bronchitis (certificate included in father's service records).
Frederick, born 6th January 1910
Dorothy A ("Doll") born 17th Sept 1911 (December quarter 1911, Birmingham 6d 26)
William - born 1st July 1914, died 21st February 1918 (certificate also in father's service records) aged 3, of meningitis.
Francis - born 8th January 1916 (March quarter 1916, Birmingham 6d 280),
then your father William (June quarter 1920, Birmingham 6d 470).

Later on there were twin girls born in June quarter 1927 - Rosetta (Birmingham North 6d 517) and Violet (Birmingham North 6d 516).

If you direct message me your email address I'll send you a copy of the census and Army service record.
 
It would seem that Ada's surname might have been Curtis - I found a birth record for a William born in the Apr to June quarter whose Mother's maiden name was Curtis. This lead me to a Dorothy born 1911 whose Mother's maiden name was also Curtis. There is also a Francis born 1916 whose Mother's maiden name was Curtis. I have no idea if these are the right people.

Janice
Sorry I was posting this at the same time as the above.
 
Ah, often happens Janice! I can definitely confirm the Curtis name and children as the marriage and children are all listed on Frederick's army service records with the address at 2 Park Place.
 
Thanks for this Pimpernel, most of it all new to me. I now need to sit down and digest this. Thanks for all your help.
 
You're welcome Tony, let me know if you'd like more help :) There may be living descendants of the Curtis family and your uncles and aunts.
 
Thanks pimpernel. I am putting all the information you found for me into the family tree I have made. I am particularly interested in my grandfathers military history, I wasnt aware he was in the army. Some time ago, with help from other members of this forum, I discovered my mothers grandfather, my great grandfather, had been killed in the first word war, he was 46 at the time. Also, his son, only 16 had also been killed before him, again in WW1. I have always had an interest in both the wars, not the action side more how people coped. I would certainly be interested in his army papers.

thanks again
 
I just mailed you the records, let me know if you have problems opening the file. Frederick has quite a lot of surviving service papers, it's so sad to hear of the double tragedy in your mother's family.

My folks lived at the back of 34 Stour Street. There were a bunch of other relatives in properties on that part of the street - Patrick, Gibbins and Griffin, all linked by marriage. My great uncle George Shelley was killed in France 1918, aged 18. Sadly neither his nor my grandfather Albert Shelley's service records have survived, though I've a rough idea through family stories and published histories.
 
I have just gone through all these documents, shame they didnt have computers in those days, lots of the writing illegible. However they have given me lots of information.

Thanks again
 
Hello folks, I am fascinated by all this chatter about Stour Street as it appears on my birth certificate (I assume my mother was lodging at 2 back 32 Stour street in 1941 so that I could be born in Dudley Road hospital) after my birth we moved to Small Heath. Funnily enough.. our name was Harris, but alas I don't think we are related to SheldonTony, so cannot be any help to him in his research at the moment. Regards, Margaret.
 
Good morning skylark. In the last few days I have discovered my grandmothers first name and lots of information about that side of my family.All this from the help Pimpernel has given me.
 
Astonian said:
Hi pollypops
I have just sent my bit in on thread and I have just seen your valuable thread for tony
And I have to say a big thank you because you have put valued into from Ladywood site and more so from old school friends
And friends of my brothers and myself enamel john day and his family and brothers and Janet and the kanesfamily
As we was all good friends at school and my best mate was tony memory whom lived closed to these family's and closer to lanes
I wonder whether or not it may have. Been ken taylor or kenn Pitt whom gave this info and the map of stout street to Ladywood site
I will have to log on and get in touch with them all and my you her brother whom worked with Michael day
Its a small world so let's hope we have cracked the case for tony its.ate now so I will be off to bed shortly so I will good night
And look forward tomorrow best wishes Alan,, Astonian,,,,,
Click to expand...
morning old Stour street folk, I lived 7/25 Stour street from 1958 to 1965ish ,I remember the Kane family ,Joe Patrick, Peter Birch , mixer Jenks, Prince family, Ken Pitt the griffin family. i went to Steward st school and onto Icknield st school leaving in 1964 to start working as a painter decorator for B. Whitehouse and sons. Michael Day is my brother.
 
Astonian said:
Hi pollypops
I have just sent my bit in on thread and I have just seen your valuable thread for tony
And I have to say a big thank you because you have put valued into from Ladywood site and more so from old school friends
And friends of my brothers and myself enamel john day and his family and brothers and Janet and the kanesfamily
As we was all good friends at school and my best mate was tony memory whom lived closed to these family's and closer to lanes
I wonder whether or not it may have. Been ken taylor or kenn Pitt whom gave this info and the map of stout street to Ladywood site
I will have to log on and get in touch with them all and my you her brother whom worked with Michael day
Its a small world so let's hope we have cracked the case for tony its.ate now so I will be off to bed shortly so I will good night
And look forward tomorrow best wishes Alan,, Astonian,,,,,
Click to expand...
Hi, my name is john day, brother of Janet Michael Susan ,Debra and Tracy. i lived up the same yard as the Tranters and Kanes.
 
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