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St Barnabas Erdington Memorial

Morturn

Super Moderator
Staff member
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Nick Bradbury

master brummie
Ok, invite people to join the group. Make regular posting, updpate etc photos work best. Like and share the work of other groups with a similar interests

Hi there,
I need some help, may be yourself or a member of the forum can assist me?
Over the last two years I have been studying all the names on the St. Barnabas Great War memorial.
I have now completed that task, bar one.
Jack Shaw.
Apart from a 1901 census record there is nothing, not a sausage.
I have found from my studies that some names were misspelled which has caused considerable efforts.
Example, Frank Bedding should have been (Frank E Redding).
So, I have drawn a blank on the last name to find, it become beyond me.
Can you or the members help me on this one name? Jack Shaw.
Hopefully then I can move on to the next stage of funding for a replacement memorial.
Nick.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Hi Nick,

Could you give us what information you have confirmation - d.o.b., any known address(es) as there are rather a lot living in Birmingham in 1901. Cheers.

Maurice :cool:
 

Nick Bradbury

master brummie
Hi Nick,

Could you give us what information you have confirmation - d.o.b., any known address(es) as there are rather a lot living in Birmingham in 1901. Cheers.

Maurice :cool:

Maurice,
Well, now you see my problem.
The only (Jack Shaw) on record is in the 1901 census as being born in Aston 1885 son of William and Jane.
As you rightly point out, there are many variants, and if you try, you will find more than one William and Jane Shaw.
I tried from both starting positions, the CWGC listings under various first names but keeping Shaw.
I also tried working backward from the 1901 census.
There are several who were in the Kings Royal Rifles for sure.
Then it occurred to me, did Jack emigrate to Canada or Australia?
I find nothing for this.
I tried following siblings looking for clues.
Nothing.
So, I have run out of ideas.
Nick.
 

Nick Bradbury

master brummie
He could have been John but known as Jack. Which may or may not help.

I think that I have found him, it seems that jack Shaw is in fact Jacob Shaw born in Warsaw Russia, Jewish decent.
He was in the Kings Royal Rile Corps and killed 20th Sept 1917 Passchendaele.
So, this is why I could find nothing on him.
So, this now completes my full list of people on the war memorial.
All I need now is to find some one who knows how to do crowd funding and rebuild the memorial.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Nick,

I have him in 1911 living at 1 Court 2 House Lord Street working as a polisher in the cycle trade with wife Leah nee Wright who he married in 4 Qtr 1910 Aston Reg Dist Vol 6d Page 532. Is that any help?

Maurice :cool:
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Nick,

I've attached the 1911 Census, but I've tried to carry it forward without success. Leah does not appear on the 1939 Register, nor does she appear to have been been pregnant around that period as there are no suitable SHAW children with a mother's maiden name of WRIGHT around the time of WW1. Neither are there passenger records in the years following WW1. Nor does he appear in the various Rolls of Honour such as the National or Duvigny's nor appear in FindMyPast military records. Leah may have died in 1941 at Birmingham. One other possibility, but I don't have a current subscription is that he is on the Absent Voters List on the Electoral Rolls at https://www.midlandshistoricaldata.org/
though it gives no figure for the number of results if I try to search.

Maurice :cool:
 

Attachments

  • GBC_1911_RG14_18267_0205.jpg
    GBC_1911_RG14_18267_0205.jpg
    598.4 KB · Views: 9

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Absent Voters List is also on Ancestry and there is a Private Sydney John Shaw of 19 Ryland Road Erdington, Service No. S/361904, GHQ, ASC listed, but also a death for that name in Birmingham in 1969 which may or may not be the same guy.

Maurice :cool:
 

Nick Bradbury

master brummie
Maurice,
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to send the 1911 census.
I could not find this reference on Ancestry as much as I tried.
I will take another look at this on Sunday.
Further, using Free B.M.D. I could only find a marriage reference for John Shaw, and not for Leah Wright.
That said, I do have a reference for a Jack Shaw for 1901 and 1911.
Admittedly it has taken dedication and time to even find these references.
I then coupled this with every person in the Army - Air force - navy-Merchant navy.
The Name Frederic J Shaw was prominent as well as Jesse James Shaw.
I then whittled these down to a list of five possible people.
Even then, nearly all survived the Great War.
On the 1911 census there was only one Jack Shaw who was from Birmingham.
Address in 1911 - 98, Spencer Street, Heaton near Castle On Tyne.
This was the only person left.
Then coordinating this with the commonwealth war graves commission, (CWGC) there was only
one Jack out of two that had no information.
So, using his regimental number, R/33887, I tracked him and his records.
And there it was found that he was Russian.
As it is, Warsaw was given to Russia by Vienna in 1815.
And so, it then transpires that Jack Shaw is mentioned in the British UK Jewry roll of honour.
And so, it then lends itself that jacks real first name is Jacob.
But what his real surname might be, is a big guess.
All that said, it could be that his name could be misspelt from Straw to Shaw???????
If that is the case, then I have to start from scratch. :-(
But, as I said, I will look in to this, and any suggestions are most welcome.
Nick.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Nick,

He certainly must have a link to Erdington somewhere and at the moment I can't see that. With St Barnabus Church Records current out of reach in the Archives (banns/marriages/christenings/administrative records?), it is likely to be difficult to find that link. I have both Ancestry & FindMyPast, and there were half a dozen service records for John Shaw in Birmingham, but three of them were for long service engagements and were demobbed before or after WW1. CWGC is not the easiest source to use because it throws up so much unconnected stuff.

I checked both FMP and FreeBMD using Leah Wright and 1910 as the year and both came up correctly. I'll try and give this a little more thought and see if I can find Leah on the Electoral Rolls in, say, 1925 and see who she is living with, if anyone.

Maurice :cool:
 

pjmburns

master brummie
The Jack Shaw K or R/33887 has the following entry in Soldiers Effects: Surname of recipient looks like "Marks".
1611441321064.png
 
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Nick Bradbury

master brummie
The Jack Shaw K or R/33887 has the following entry in Soldiers Effects: Surname of recipient looks like "Marks".
View attachment 152029

Janice,
Thank you.
I found the same document.
The letter R stands for Rifles. But yes, it does look like a K.
Thank goodness we have typed documents these days.
I have some family letters that are very hard to read as they are in long hand.
I thought perhaps the recipient might be R. Pivel or something?
But I am unused to reading military documents and perhaps using
red ink has some meaning, but it does look to me like (Burial marks).
I wonder if there is some one who has military background who can advise on these things?
As it is, this is the last name to be looked in to, and it would be wonderful if I can get this correct.
It occurs to me as in many things, why oh why did we not ask questions while people were still alive
to inform us?
Nick.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I think the red refers to the War gratuity and who it was paid to. The blue is any funds the dead soldier had. It usually has the relationship to the deceased - I have seem Fa (Father) and Mo (Mother) also Sis (sister) here it looks like Bro and Marks - possibly a surname. I assumed it was the same person who got the grant written in red.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
I've drawn a complete blank on Shaw 33887(& variants) Kings Royal Rifle Corps on both FindMyPast and Ancestry other than that Soldiers Effect Record. He appears on CWGC on Tyne Cot Memorial, but seemingly nowhere else & with no details of home location or family.

Maurice :cool:
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I searched as well Maurice. I tried a 1911 census search as well and was astounded how many "russian" families showed up. I did find one possible Jack Shaw but he was in London so haven't found a link to Erdington. I also suspect that he might not have been eligible to vote which rules out e rolls.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Janice,

Artie Shaw, the American bandleader, had Russian parents and his real name was Arthur Shawsky. But I deviate......

Back to my John & Leah (nee Wright), on the 1920 Electoral roll Leah Shaw is living with either her sister or her mother, Elizabeth Wright, at 15 Bright Terrace, Guildford Street, which seems to back up my theory that John Shaw was either dead or away in the services. The only thing lacking is a connection to St Barnabas. I'm just wondering if they were married in that church in 4 Qtr 1910. The other thing is that Leah doesn't appear after that date on the Electoral Roll. So I next need to find Leah & Elizabeth Wright on the 1901 Census to establish their exact relationship and establish whether she remarried, died or whatever. But I need to take a break for an hour. Back on the case in a short while.

EDIT: I can confirm that Elizabeth was Leah's mother and in both 1891 & 1901 they were living in Lord Street in the parish of St Mary's, but worth going back another decade to see if there was an Erdington connection.

Maurice :cool:
 
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