Simpson family (Jack, former boxer from 1940s)

[Wisey66]

Hello

Just trying to track down any family members or someone that may have known my Great Uncle Jack Simpson, the boxer from 1940s. He had a brother called Alfred who was my Grandad and their father was George Simpson - Fish Merchant who lived at 5 Blaus Street (unsure of spelling of street but looks like that from writing), Birmingham back in the late 1920s.

Jack and his wife Alice lived in Kingstanding back in the 1940s.

Please if anyone knows of this family do get in touch. Many thanks Angie

 

[pjmburns]

Can't help much but the address is 5 Blews Street as George, Mary and Charles Simpson are listed there on 1922 electoral roll. Also George is listed there in 1912.

 

[Wisey66]

Can't help much but the address is 5 Blews Street as George, Mary and Charles Simpson are listed there on 1922 electoral roll. Also George is listed there in 1912.

Thank you, this is really helpful, although unsure who Charles might be but that George must be my Great Grandfather, so have a couple more names to look at too. I know for sure George lived then in 1926 as that is the address on my Grandad's marriage certificate. Much appreciated

 

[pjmburns]

Glad to help. Not all the e rolls are on on Ancestry - I was only trying to check the spelling of the road.

 

[Wisey66]

Glad to help. Not all the e rolls are on on Ancestry - I was only trying to check the spelling of the road.

Thank you Janice, much appreciated. Angie

 

[MWS]

On 1911 census there is a George Simpson living in Aston listed as a fish and fruit hawker.

Wth him is his wife Mary (nee Cain) and five sons - George, William, Charles, Alfred & Joseph. The eldest George was born 1890 before George and Mary married 19 Dec 1892.

John/Jack was born 1912 and they also appear to have had a daughter, Margaret, who died young.

 

[Wisey66]

Thank you, this really helps piece together my mother's side of the family - I imagine my Great Uncle Jack Simpson was perhaps legally named Joseph? My Grandad Alfred was born 1902 but can look back on all of this further now...I didn't realise there were so many siblings.

 

[pjmburns]

More likely Jack was named John. If you check post #6 there seems to have been a John born in 1912. Jack often seems to have belonged to a John. Both my godfather and father-in-law were named John but always called Jack.

 

[Brasscaster]

Hello

Just trying to track down any family members or someone that may have known my Great Uncle Jack Simpson, the boxer from 1940s. He had a brother called Alfred who was my Grandad and their father was George Simpson - Fish Merchant who lived at 5 Blaus Street (unsure of spelling of street but looks like that from writing), Birmingham back in the late 1920s.

Jack and his wife Alice lived in Kingstanding back in the 1940s.

Please if anyone knows of this family do get in touch. Many thanks Angie

Angie, I have done some more digging in the records about the Simpsons and have found it fascinating research.
If I am right, your great grandfather George Simpson (born 1867) was one of the Simpson Brothers who were leading members of the notorious gang known as the Aston Sloggers, a group of "ruffians" who were in trouble numerous times for stone throwing, theft, drunkeness and assaulting police around the last decade of the 19th century. They are said to be the forerunners of the Peaky Blinders. The family is discussed in the book by 'The Gangs of Birmingham' by Philip Gooderson.
I have collected many newpaper reports about the family that I can send to you if you think they are your ancestors. My ancestors lived in those same streets at the same time and I am sure they would have been aware of the Simpsons. I think your grandfather, Alfred, did well to move to Winchester away from such a tough environment.
Not so nice for you to be linked to them but you are so lucky to have such a well documented family history. There is even a photo of George in the police records which I attach together with a list of his various crimes.

 

[Wisey66]

More likely Jack was named John. If you check post #6 there seems to have been a John born in 1912. Jack often seems to have belonged to a John. Both my godfather and father-in-law were named John but always called Jack.

Ahh ok thank you, I know years ago it seemed quite common that people didn't use the names they were born with, we came across this on my father's side when trying to track down family members, which can make it confusing or lead you down the wrong path! So appreciate everyone's input

 

[Wisey66]

Angie, I have done some more digging in the records about the Simpsons and have found it fascinating research.
If I am right, your great grandfather George Simpson (born 1867) was one of the Simpson Brothers who were leading members of the notorious gang known as the Aston Sloggers, a group of "ruffians" who were in trouble numerous times for stone throwing, theft, drunkeness and assaulting police around the last decade of the 19th century. They are said to be the forerunners of the Peaky Blinders. The family is discussed in the book by 'The Gangs of Birmingham' by Philip Gooderson.
I have collected many newpaper reports about the family that I can send to you if you think they are your ancestors. My ancestors lived in those same streets at the same time and I am sure they would have been aware of the Simpsons. I think your grandfather, Alfred, did well to move to Winchester away from such a tough environment.
Not so nice for you to be linked to them but you are so lucky to have such a well documented family history. There is even a photo of George in the police records which I attach together with a list of his various crimes.

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Oh Wow, now we've have spoken about this as a family and wondered if the Simpsons brothers were linked to the Aston Sloggers/Peaky Blinders. This is absolutely fascinating and a bit mind blowing but thank you for sharing this with me. I do believe this George Simpson is my great grandfather and any information you have in regards to newspaper reports will be absolutely fascinating to read...as you say not such a nice link but truly fascinating. I was very young when my grandfather died so have very little memories of him, although I have 3 older brothers who will have better memories of my grandparents. Anyway, thank you so much for sending this through. I have a book by Carl Chinn the real story of Peaky Blinders, but couldn't see anything in there about Simpson brothers, so will read the book you mention. This is fascinating that you have ancestors that lived in the same streets..wow family history is so amazing..

 

[Wisey66]

Oh Wow, now we've have spoken about this as a family and wondered if the Simpsons brothers were linked to the Aston Sloggers/Peaky Blinders. This is absolutely fascinating and a bit mind blowing but thank you for sharing this with me. I do believe this George Simpson is my great grandfather and any information you have in regards to newspaper reports will be absolutely fascinating to read...as you say not such a nice link but truly fascinating. I was very young when my grandfather died so have very little memories of him, although I have 3 older brothers who will have better memories of my grandparents. Anyway, thank you so much for sending this through. I have a book by Carl Chinn the real story of Peaky Blinders, but couldn't see anything in there about Simpson brothers, so will read the book you mention. This is fascinating that you have ancestors that lived in the same streets..wow family history is so amazing..

Actually just looked at Carl Chinn book again and found a section about an Alfred Simpson, from 1886 involved in Aston Sloggers, sent to prison etc. for crimes, imagining this could have been my Great Grandad's George Simpson's brother or something? Need to investigate further with this Alfred Simpson.

 

[Brasscaster]

Actually just looked at Carl Chinn book again and found a section about an Alfred Simpson, from 1886 involved in Aston Sloggers, sent to prison etc. for crimes, imagining this could have been my Great Grandad's George Simpson's brother or something? Need to investigate further with this Alfred Simpson.

Yes, Alfred was George's brother. I have attached an extract from Philip Gooderson's book that I was able to access by searching in Google books.

 

[Wisey66]

Yes, Alfred was George's brother. I have attached an extract from Philip Gooderson's book that I was able to access by searching in Google books.

View attachment 150619

Thank you for this, I believe my brother read about this some time ago and this is when we started wondering if these Simpson's were related to my grandfather...which I just need to link up records, but it's kind of looking that these are our ancestors - due to other info received of where he lived and his profession as a Fish merchant/hawker etc. I'm so grateful for all the information received - still trying to process it all!

 

[MWS]

Your George Simpson seems to have had the matching brothers - John, Joseph, Alfred and James - all of them born between 1860 & 1870.

He also appears to have had 2 furthers brothers - Robert & Charles - and a sister - Annie - from his father's second marriage.

Their father - Joseph - was a wire worker.

 

[MWS]

George's father is listed as Joseph on his marriage to Mary Cain.

 

[Wisey66]

George's father is listed as Joseph on his marriage to Mary Cain.

Thank you for this, much appreciated

 

[oldbrit]

"Jack Simpson" was a great cyclist with the Midland C&AC (Huh BISH!) But think he was from Yorkshire. He and his wife had a cafe on the Cov Rd we would meet at by Elmdom A/P Real nice chap I even beat him a couple of time in races

 

[Brasscaster]

To answer the query about Jack Simpson posed at the start of this thread.
He was born in 1912 the son of George Simpson and Mary Cain. At the age of 14 he was a schoolboy Midland Boxing Champ and went on to become a professional in 1948. As a youth he did cross the law but less so than his uncle Charles (George's brother), who was also a professional boxer. After a troubled youth Charles seems to have settled down and, known as Charley "navvy" Simpson, he had considerable success in the ring. He died aged 47 at Erdington Infirmary in July1921 after 6 months of paralysis.

 

[Wisey66]

"Jack Simpson" was a great cyclist with the Midland C&AC (Huh BISH!) But think he was from Yorkshire. He and his wife had a cafe on the Cov Rd we would meet at by Elmdom A/P Real nice chap I even beat him a couple of time in races

Yes I understand there was also a cyclist called Jack Simpson and that's amazing you met him and beat him in races!

 

[Wisey66]

To answer the query about Jack Simpson posed at the start of this thread.
He was born in 1912 the son of George Simpson and Mary Cain. At the age of 14 he was a schoolboy Midland Boxing Champ and went on to become a professional in 1948. As a youth he did cross the law but less so than his uncle Charles (George's brother), who was also a professional boxer. After a troubled youth Charles seems to have settled down and, known as Charley "navvy" Simpson, he had considerable success in the ring. He died aged 47 at Erdington Infirmary in July1921 after 6 months of paralysis.

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Oh my word this is fantastic to read and does confirm my heritage albeit a mixed bag! I cannot thank you enough for sharing this information with me, it tells me so much about my mother's side of the family and I didn't realise boxing was passed through generations..my mother always watched the boxing on TV years ago and I suppose this is why, regret not speaking more with her now about her father's side of the family. Thank you so much

 

[oldbrit]

Yes I understand there was also a cyclist called Jack Simpson and that's amazing you met him and beat him in races!

 

[Gwynfor]

George's father is listed as Joseph on his marriage to Mary Cain.

My wife's maiden name is Astle and Jack Simpson's wife Alice Astle was my wife's Aunty, Alice's mother was also named Mary Cain, is this a coincidence or are Alice & Jack Simpson related, in one of the articles which was posted in a earlier post George Simpson and Thomas Astle were arrested for breaking a shop window, Alice had a Brother named Thomas Astle do you think this is the same person.

 

[Wisey66]

My wife's maiden name is Astle and Jack Simpson's wife Alice Astle was my wife's Aunty, Alice's mother was also named Mary Cain, is this a coincidence or are Alice & Jack Simpson related, in one of the articles which was posted in a earlier post George Simpson and Thomas Astle were arrested for breaking a shop window, Alice had a Brother named Thomas Astle do you think this is the same person.

Hi Gwynfor, that's strange that Alice Astle's mother was also called Mary Cain, Mary Cain is definitely appears the mother of my grandad Alfred Simpson and John (Jack) Simpson and the other brothers? I did wonder if Thomas Astle was a relation of Alice with George Simpson who was the eldest son of Mary Cain. As per my previous private message to you I will send photos of my Great Aunt Alice with my family to see if this is the same person?

 

[Wisey66]

I've just noticed in the article it is William Astle not Thomas, so not sure if that makes any difference? Here are some photos of my Great Aunt Alice with my Great Uncle Jack Simpson and my family, i.e. my mum and dad, brothers and Jack's brother Alfred and my nan, this pic was taken in the late 60s. Also a picture of a group of men who I don't know, but someone may recognise from Birmingham possibly as not sure they are on my father's side of the family?

 

[Gwynfor]

I've just noticed in the article it is William Astle not Thomas, so not sure if that makes any difference? Here are some photos of my Great Aunt Alice with my Great Uncle Jack Simpson and my family, i.e. my mum and dad, brothers and Jack's brother Alfred and my nan, this pic was taken in the late 60s. Also a picture of a group of men who I don't know, but someone may recognise from Birmingham possibly as not sure they are on my father's side of the family?

Hi Thanks for the photos they are great, I made a mistake with Thomas, William Astle was the name of Alice’s Father who was also the Father of my wife’s Father John Astle, so it could have been him in the article, we have some photos of Jack & Alice which I will post on here when I find them.

 

[MWS]

My wife's maiden name is Astle and Jack Simpson's wife Alice Astle was my wife's Aunty, Alice's mother was also named Mary Cain, is this a coincidence or are Alice & Jack Simpson related, in one of the articles which was posted in a earlier post George Simpson and Thomas Astle were arrested for breaking a shop window, Alice had a Brother named Thomas Astle do you think this is the same person.

It looks like that Mary Cain wife of William Astle was the niece of Mary Cain wife of George Simpson.

The younger Mary Cain appears to be the daughter of Michael Cain, the brother of the elder Mary Cain. Michael & Mary being children of a Patrick Cain.

So John/Jack Simpson & Mary Cain (Alice Astle's mom) would have been first cousins and John/Jack & Alice first cousins once removed.

 

[Gwynfor]

I've just noticed in the article it is William Astle not Thomas, so not sure if that makes any difference? Here are some photos of my Great Aunt Alice with my Great Uncle Jack Simpson and my family, i.e. my mum and dad, brothers and Jack's brother Alfred and my nan, this pic was taken in the late 60s. Also a picture of a group of men who I don't know, but someone may recognise from Birmingham possibly as not sure they are on my father's side of the family?

I have attached some photos of Jack Simpson with Alice & her Family

 

[Wisey66]

It looks like that Mary Cain wife of William Astle was the niece of Mary Cain wife of George Simpson.

The younger Mary Cain appears to be the daughter of Michael Cain, the brother of the elder Mary Cain. Michael & Mary being children of a Patrick Cain.

So John/Jack Simpson & Mary Cain (Alice Astle's mom) would have been first cousins and John/Jack & Alice first cousins once removed.

Ahh ok I see, thank you for this information...I'm really finding all of this family history very interesting and grateful for people's input with all of this, so confusing when they all have the same names too! Thanks again for this

 

[Wisey66]

I have attached some photos of Jack Simpson with Alice & her Family

Thank you for the photos Gwynfor. We hope to venture up to Birmingham next year and try to find the places my ancestors lived. I believe one of the pub's in Birmingham used to have memorabilia up of Jack's boxing days, but whether it is still there or not I don't know? My eldest brother remembers going to watch one of his fight's in a pub garden, with a proper ring and referee etc and Jack taking him to a back room in pub where men were dressed smartly smoking cigars...perhaps the Aston Sloggers or Peaky Blinders?! He was only around 6/7 so doesn't remember the pub name but was in Aston.