Ship Inn Lozells

[til]

Can anyone help with information on this pub please?
The Ship Inn . It was a Holt Brewery Pub
I had to restore an old photo and was asked if I could get any information.
On the back of the photo it had Birmingham? written.
thank you

 

[mikejee]

In the 1900 Kellys there are three Ships listed (only pubs with a full licence ar named in Kellys, but this does look like a substantial pub and I would guess had a full licence). One , the Ship Inn at 185 Ledsam St was not on a corner. The Ship in Camp Hill looks nothing like the photo. The Ship at 27 Fox St also does not appear to be on a corner. The 1890 Kellys also lists one at 103 Steelhouse lane, which is also not on a corner. So if it is in Birmingham it would appear not to have had a full licence,

 

[Astoness]

there certainly was a holts brewery in birmingham but i think there was also one in manchester mike..needs a bit more research on this one

lyn

 

[Phil]

Mrs Susan Hunt (Licencee over the door) was registered as a beer retailer at 92 Great King Street in 1910.

 

[Phil]

Further to my last post, from what I can see number 92 disappeared under Lucas's factory on Great King Street.

 

[mikejee]

In the 1911 census, the pub is named as Shakespeare

 

[Phil]

Mike

In reality there is nothing to say that this Mrs Hunt is the one that ran the Ship in the photo, but the facts seem to fit, approximate date, name, and the fact that the pub is no longer with us.

 

[mikejee]

In 1913 Susan Hunt is listed in Kellys as a beer retailer at 33 Freeman Road, Nechells. Unfortunately, the landlord does not seem to live on the premises here. In 1911 it is listed as in the occupation of a cycle maker, and in 1910 (again listed as beer retailer), it is omitted from census. This would seem to indicate tome an off licence.
However in 1903 & 1904 she is listed in Kellys as being a beer retailer at 125 Gerrard St, on the corner of Wilton St. the 1901 census gives this as The Ship Inn. So I think the name Susan Hunt , The Ship Inn (not just the Ship) and that it is on a corner is pretty good evidence.
Inceidently the census also states that the licensee is a public House manager, so it was a managed house

 

[Phil]

Mike

Perhaps that is the correct pub, the name Susan Hunt could be just a coincidence or perhaps the lady moved around a bit. I just plumped for the first Susan Hunt that ran a pub in Birmingham.

 

[mikejee]

If only we had a photo of the Wilton St/Gerrard St corner. there is a more modern one of the Gunmakers arms on the opposite corner at no 123 Gerrard St, though it looks as if all other buildings around have been demolished at that time

 

[Astoness]

mike this is a pic of the corner adjacent to the gunmakers which as you can see was a shop and my aunt lived in the house 3 down from it.. or did you want one of the other corners

 

[mikejee]

Well you are right Phil. It certainly does not look much like the pub in the photo. Kellys shows that by 1932 it was a green grocers, but the 1901 census (attached) does show it as The Ship Inn. Bit of a change though.

 

[Astoness]

mike did you see my pic on post 10... im not subbed at the min but could you see if no 112 gerard st is down as anything...that looks more to be the shape of the pub than no 125 although i know on the census and kellys it is down as no 125...looking at the pic i posted of the greengrocers and compering the pic of the ship im not convinced yet as its such a massive transformation.. looking at your map.if you look at the length of the gunmakers on the wilton st side its quite long but the length of the ship on the wilton st side which is where most of the pub would be looks to me to just be a normal size building..very odd

thanks mike...

 

[mikejee]

Up till around 1913 it was a fruiterer or greengrocer (though 1911 census says fish, fruit & poultry dealer). From 1921 it was a fish shop

 

[Astoness]

thanks mike think thats my idea down the drain...just think the shape and size of it on your map is too small to be the building of the pub posted on post 1... will do a bit more digging tomorrow

lyn

 

[Astoness]

another strange thing mike is after 125 gerrard st on the 1901 census you posted it jumps to 66 gower st which is half way up wilton st.. why didnt the census carry on to 127...129 etc..think my aunt was at 133...any thoughts on why ?? ... could you also check the 1891 and 1911 census please to see if 125 gerrard st was the ship inn..thanks mike...also wondering if mr matthews was only living at 125 gerrard st but as says in brackets on the census was manager of the ship inn which was maybe located somewhere other than 125 gerrard st.?? still not convinced yet that there was a pub on that corner

cheers mike

 

[Astoness]

from 1912 to at least 1921 kellys says...123 gerrard st gunmakers arms..here is wilton st..125 gerrard st samuel heath beer retailer so not licensed gives me more reason now to think that this photo of the ship inn was not in gerrard st...back to a bit more digging

 

[Phil]

So perhaps it was at 92 Great King Street until they built Lucas's?

 

[Astoness]

So perhaps it was at 92 Great King Street until they built Lucas's?

phil i really dont know im at a loss at the min...they started building lucas GKS in 1887...also see mikes post 6...

 

[mikejee]

I too think it is strange and will have a look Lyn, but will make two points.
1.When doing the census they (seemingly) arbitrarily drew in the various districts for the enumerators and it is very common, with long streets as least, to stop and then go to a side street. Indeed, Gerrard St, I think, is in about 5 or 6 districts In several cases, part of one side of the street is in one, and the other side in another, so the jump is not unexpected.
2. Ship inn is not written against the occupier, but the actual house number, so referred to the building and not the occupier.

 

[mikejee]

Had looked at 1911, and remembered it did not name pub, but could not remember what it said. It lists Samuel Heth, beerhouse manager.
In 1891 it is John Marshall, licensed victualler, with no name, and here the numbering continues 127,.....
In 1881 it is James Allen, beerhouse keeper at the Ship Inn (attached)

 

[Astoness]

thanks very much mike looking like the ship inn was there then ..could i just ask for an earlier 1880s please..i want to see the shape of the building on the wilton st side because on the 1950s map you posted it does not look long enough for a pub with at least 4 large windows and a door.. unless of course no 139 and a half wilton (showing on the 1950 map) was at some point part of the pub in which case the shape and size would i think be about right..

lyn

 

[mikejee]

Lyn
Unfortunately no 125 is on the border of two maps in the large scale c1889 series, the upper portion of which is not on the oldmaps site. However, enough is shown to show that the building length in Gerrard St is longer than shown on the later map

 

[Astoness]

ok thanks mike so we cant get an idea of the length of the building on the wilton st side then...leave it with me mike i will do some more research because as this is of interest to me i want to try to make sure about this pub...ive been researching the old end for many years now and this is the first time i have heard of the ship inn or seen a photo so before i write it up i need to be absolutely certain that the info and location is correct...if it is correct this is a very old pub..bit of a georgian syle especially with the flat roof and not unlike the whitehouse at NJSW which i think dates to around 1830 ish

lyn

 

[Pedrocut]

In 1898 there was a Ship Inn in Charles Henry Street, can’t see it mentioned?

 

[Astoness]

ahh thanks pedro do you have a street number for the charles henry st ship inn??...the waters get muddier and that has just thrown yet more info into the melting pot...busy now but i am going to get back to this tonight..no doubt there was a ship inn beer retailer at 125 gerrard st as the 1881 and 1901 census tells us that but at the min i dont think the ship inn on post 1 was at gerrard st...would love it if it was though as that would be another pub from down the old end that i can put in my old end folder

the other thing i was wondering is on post 1 til has said that on the back of the photo it says birmingham ? if the ? is actually written on the back then whoever wrote that is only guessing it could be a birmingham pub....unless of course til is asking us that question...

thanks again pedro

lyn

 

[Pedrocut]

An Inn in Chas Henry St around 1890.

 

[Pedrocut]

There are about 3 other inns mentioned for Chas Henry St, but this is the only one I can find concerning the Ship...a Fowl Crime

 

[Phil]

In 1912 & 1913 I have located Susan Hunt (name over the door in photo) at 33 Freeman Street Nechells. Number 33 does not tie in with any of the fully licenced pubs that I remember from that location the Stork and The Britannia. So 33 must have been a single house sized building, obviously not the pub in the photo.

 

[Bob Davis]

Had looked at 1911, and remembered it did not name pub, but could not remember what it said. It lists Samuel Heth, beerhouse manager.
In 1891 it is John Marshall, licensed victualler, with no name, and here the numbering continues 127,.....
In 1881 it is James Allen, beerhouse keeper at the Ship Inn (attached)
View attachment 125598

An interesting aside, they must have been quite rich at Number 123, the Boddingtons, because they had a servant and not a young girl, but a 27 year old . Was Gerrard Street a well off street in that era....of course only members of the forum alive at that time can tell me the answer to that.
Bob