hi mindy i am sure that if mike spots your message he will be able to help with map
lyn
-
Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.
We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team -
HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
we are now using a backup solution
hi mindy i am sure that if mike spots your message he will be able to help with map
lyn
Mindy
No map or directory lists the numbers of the houses in little Shadwell St. However I attach a map c 1890 (which, for the street is the same in 1904) where I have worked out what must be the numbering (houses listed on electoral roll are, 1,2,3,4 5 and then 5 back houses behing no 5)
No map or directory lists the numbers of the houses in little Shadwell St. However I attach a map c 1890 (which, for the street is the same in 1904) where I have worked out what must be the numbering (houses listed on electoral roll are, 1,2,3,4 5 and then 5 back houses behing no 5)
mindy looking at mikes map it should make it easier now for you to work out where your grandads house once stood luckily the gunmakers pub is still there so no 1 was the opposite side of the pub near to where little shadwell st meets shadwell st..i cant of course be certain but i think it would have been set back behind the wall where all the greenery is...click on link below for street view
lyn
lyn
I have just seen the photographs of Shadwell Street and Little Shadwell Street, I lived in Bath Street and the yard was opposite the Gunmakers arms. As as children my sister, brother and I used to race down the hill in Little Shadwell Street. It was great in the winter as we used to slide down it.The canal was at the bottom across the road and we were threatened not to go near it. Few years before I was born my brother was accidently pushed into the canal by a dog and nearly drowned, he was saved by his elder brother pulling him out. It was not fenced off. We never went near it as we would we told off by our mom, and we did as we were told. My brothers both went to St. Chads boys school as did my father before them. There was a teacher called Miss Croak who remembered my father and she used to say to my brothers I taught your dad. My sister and I attended the school when it became a mixed school it was then the junior school. Mr. Wells was the headmaster and Mr. Conklin moved to what used to be the girls school in Brearly Street. There had been a pub along there which had changed into a house, my friends grandparents lived there and we used to go down into the cellar. It is amazing what memories a few photographs bring to life.
mindy1459
A Hockley Lass
mindy1459
A Hockley Lass
Thank you so much Mikejee, the map and information you have provided gives me a better insight to my grandfathers life, I am currently working on a chronological timeline of his life, although I have had some training, map reading still defeats me. Your help is very much appreciated. Also thank you Lyn for your help too.
Malcolm Robinson
master brummie
I am so late finding this thread I hope someone is still looking after it. My great grandfather Charles Ford owned a gunmaking business at No 8 Bath Street (about 1870 - 1901). It is directly opposite the Gunmakers Arms. I have been searching everywhere for a photo of it. Unfortunately, all the photos I have seen are taken of the front of the Gunmakers with the photographers back to his premises. They obviously didn't realise I would want a photo of it one day. Having searched all the Bath Street photos I can find I thought I wonder if there are any taken taken down Little Shadwell Street towards Bath Street, which if taken at an angle might show his premises. Knowing the lovely helpful people on here are brilliant I thought I would try my luck. Thank you. Malcolm
I lived in Bath Street in a yard opposite the Gun Makers, we were the only yard and there were four houses in it at the bottom was number 11(it had been a shop previously, before I was born), our house was number 2/11. I was born and lived there until 18th September 1961 when we were relocated to Wad End. I have no knowledge of any other yards as there were factories all around us. I wondered if these were demolished to make way for small industries. Shadwell Street and Little Shadwell Street were our playgrounds. I remember at the bottom of Little Shadwell Street was a small gunsmiths and we were allowed in the door to watch guns being made. We had fun riding down the hill on home made go-carts trying to stop before we reached the bottom into Shadwell Street, and near the canal (Forbidden territory) as it was all open ground. There was a pub and St. Chads Boys School. Entrance to the ambulance Station, and I believe at one time a filling station. These are childhood memories. Our other play ground was the peck in little Shadwell Street, we knew it as the bombed peck. It was a waste ground and we spent many a time playing there. One area was covered with nettles and dandelions our little bit of greenery.
It brings back lots of childhood memories and of all the games we played, in our makeshift play area's.
It brings back lots of childhood memories and of all the games we played, in our makeshift play area's.
Malcolm Robinson
master brummie
pauljon
Looking at the map you lived right nextdoor to my great grandfathers business, although I have to say he sold up in 1899 to Webley & Scott; just a tiny bit before your time I guess!! Were the houses No 9 & 8 still standing when you were there? It looks like my great grandfather ran his business from the building within the yard, entry to which looks like it was down a passage between No 9 & No 8. At one point according to the Birmingham Rate books he owned both No 8 & 9. Thank you for your description of the area, albeit a bit later than when my family it gives a picture of what the area was like. Malcolm
This information is interesting. The yard that I lived in was an open yard no entry to it. There was an air raid shelter situated at the bottom of it, where we used to play . I remember a telegraph pole right at the bottom of the yard
and next to it appeared to have been a house which was used as offices (I think) There was a yard entry up the side.
which I was not allowed to go up so I do not know what was up there, just told it was dangerous? The steps up to the house we used to play on them, jumping up and off them when there was no one in. The yard that I lived in had a stamp press at the top can't remember the name of it, two names are lurking somewhere in the grey matter. Heaton and Duggard , another name is Greeners, but not sure. The noise was horrendous, but we were allowed to stand in the doorway to get warm. I could never understand the numbers on the houses in the yard, 1, 5 , 2 and 7 with 11 at the front.
It looked as if there might have been houses opposite, there was as small covered area where 3 (miskins) dustbins. 3 toilets which were shared, two brewhouses (wash houses) then the stamp. I have recently returned to my childhood memories of Bath Street, and the Telegraph pole is still there, which is outside where the house stood either 8 or 9. You have stirred up a lot of my childhood days.
and next to it appeared to have been a house which was used as offices (I think) There was a yard entry up the side.
which I was not allowed to go up so I do not know what was up there, just told it was dangerous? The steps up to the house we used to play on them, jumping up and off them when there was no one in. The yard that I lived in had a stamp press at the top can't remember the name of it, two names are lurking somewhere in the grey matter. Heaton and Duggard , another name is Greeners, but not sure. The noise was horrendous, but we were allowed to stand in the doorway to get warm. I could never understand the numbers on the houses in the yard, 1, 5 , 2 and 7 with 11 at the front.
It looked as if there might have been houses opposite, there was as small covered area where 3 (miskins) dustbins. 3 toilets which were shared, two brewhouses (wash houses) then the stamp. I have recently returned to my childhood memories of Bath Street, and the Telegraph pole is still there, which is outside where the house stood either 8 or 9. You have stirred up a lot of my childhood days.
Paul
I can explain part of the reason for your confusion over the numbering,. The street houses were numbered ignoring the courts behind, and then the houses in the courts were numbered separately. At one time there were other houses in the court ,(nos 5 & 6) which had been demolished, and replaced by a workshop. as seen by comparing the two maps below from c 1950 and c1889. However no 7 was still there and kept its number
I can explain part of the reason for your confusion over the numbering,. The street houses were numbered ignoring the courts behind, and then the houses in the courts were numbered separately. At one time there were other houses in the court ,(nos 5 & 6) which had been demolished, and replaced by a workshop. as seen by comparing the two maps below from c 1950 and c1889. However no 7 was still there and kept its number
Malcolm Robinson
master brummie
Pauljon
I am intrigued now. If you look at the street map on my post #37, I assumed the crossed lines between house 8 & 9 signified an entry to the yard and therefore the same would apply to the lines between house 10 & 11 opening up into Court 2. I have a attached a slightly blown up version of the map. My great grandfathers business is marked as gun barrel works. He lived in No 8 and I assume knocked down or adapted whatever properties there was in the Court (Court 1) into workshops to manufacture his gun barrels.
I know Greeners was also a major gun maker but I don't recognise the Heaton or Duggard names.
Malcolm
Attachments
Malcolm Robinson
master brummie
Mike,
Thank you for puuting up the 1950's map. It looks like the buildings that my great grand father lived and ran his business from the 'gun barrel works' from the 1889 map, where still standing in some form in the 1950s. I didn't discover anything about him until relatively recently so this is very interesting information for me. I know his business was bought out by Webley & Scott in 1899 for £1,250 which according to several websites is the equivalent of around £130-£150K. A not inconsiderable sum. I don't know where he went after he sold up and I can't find a photo anywhere taken from Little Shadwell Street with the photographers back to the Gunmakers pub. Malcolm
Thank you for sharing the maps, it looks as if our yard must have been court 2. The house numbers on it reads 4 3 2 7 11.
When my parents moved into this yard their house was Number 1/11, which is shown as number 4, they lived there, and my elder sister and brother were born. They moved into number 2 as it was slightly better, having a small pantry which ran the length of the house. At one end was a large brown sink, then along the wall had a small narrow table, and an old black gas cooker, the coal was next to it which ended under the stairs. Coal delivery was awful as all the dust would cover
everything and had to cleaned away. We didn't know any better yet we survived in these conditions until 1961. I and my younger sister were born in number 2. Number 7 had a small piece of yard fenced off as it faced up the yard giving space for a small private area. I thought this very posh. I have an old Birmingham friend who lived in Loveday Street, I will have to ask him if he has any further information for us, he is slightly older than me.
Pauline.
When my parents moved into this yard their house was Number 1/11, which is shown as number 4, they lived there, and my elder sister and brother were born. They moved into number 2 as it was slightly better, having a small pantry which ran the length of the house. At one end was a large brown sink, then along the wall had a small narrow table, and an old black gas cooker, the coal was next to it which ended under the stairs. Coal delivery was awful as all the dust would cover
everything and had to cleaned away. We didn't know any better yet we survived in these conditions until 1961. I and my younger sister were born in number 2. Number 7 had a small piece of yard fenced off as it faced up the yard giving space for a small private area. I thought this very posh. I have an old Birmingham friend who lived in Loveday Street, I will have to ask him if he has any further information for us, he is slightly older than me.
Pauline.
Malcolm Robinson
master brummie
Thank you, it's really nice to get a feeling of what the buildings and houses were like inside. You house sounds like the one my dad was brought up in, in Green Lane, Small Heath. Fortunately, when I was born in 1952, they had moved to a new council house in Garretts Green. Malcolm
Nick Phillips
N S P
The Gunmakers Arms, is on Bath St, not Shadwell St.
The only other houses that I can recall in Bath Street, were right next door to the Gunmakers, and I had a friend who lived in one f them. There were another house at the top opposite St. Chad's Cathedral and next to a boarding house I think known as the Acorn (peoples name for it was the rout and out) Hotel. I never saw any house in Shadwell Street. There was just the yard that was at the back of the Gunmakers.
