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Withers Rope Brush Manufacturing

daid rathgen

master brummie
Looking for 393-395 Farm St, Birmingham, the given address in 1855 for Edwin Withers. Between 1862 and 1866 Withers gave his address as 393 Farm St, Birmingham until in 1868 his address is given a warehouse next door at 384 Farm St, Hampton Ward. This was his "Rope and Twine" business.
Looking for any additional information of this location for a Rope Business. At one time I thought it might have been the "The Soho Manufactory" which was demolished in 1863.
In 1871 he advertised for staff at his 'Birmingham Ropery, Farm Street'
Your assistance appreciated.
 
It can be seen from the c1951 map that these numbers were opposite the junction with Bridge St west and are marked on the c1889 map inr red (393-5) and blue (384). It would seen that the building at 393-5 had been replaced by 1889, as by then a building covered a larger area

map c 1951 showing 393 and 384 farm st.jpgmap c1889 showing position 393 and 384 Farm St.jpg
 
I assume you got those references from the 1855 & 1868 directories.

The 1841 Pigot directory lists:
Withers Edwin, tobacconist, 17 Worcester st

The 1845 PO directory lists:
Withers Edwin, snuff & cigar manufacturer,93Smallbrookst
Withers Edwin, rope, twine & cord maker, 93 Smallbrook st

Possibly it is the same Edwin Withers or his father that was the tobacconist and later cigar manufacturer.
He is still there in the 1876 edition.
In 1878 it is:
Withers Bros, ropery & twine mills and wholesale brush manufacturers, 50 Gt Hampton St
In 1879 it is:
Withers Bros, ropery & twine makers and and manufacturers of pitch paper and all kinds of house brushes, Birmingham Ropery Mills Park road, Hockley. they are still there in the 1888 edition, but in the 1890 edition it is D Clark & son, brush manufacturers.
(Note Dates ar publication dates and probably refer to year before)

map c1889 showing rope walk in Park road.jpg
 
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That's brilliant thank you. By Dec 1888 Edwin died, his son Walter wasn't interested having started to gain a good reputation as a landscape painter in Australia. Glad to have the details. From his Will, Edwin kept each of his businesses, added them to his portfolio, and died guite well off. Many thanks.
 
293 would have been roughly where the car park is now on todays street view..

lyn

 
I notice Smallbrook has changed just a little since 1845! Any views available of Smallbrook before the urban transformation? Many thanks
 
Daid,
"Just a little" is a gross understatement , as I am sure you realise. The two earliest photos I have from 1867 and 1883 are below

City Smallbrook St towards Hurst St 1884.jpgSmallbrook%20St tonks st junction 1867.jpg
 
Not sure if this is right place to look for any sign or advertisement or notice of "Withers Rope and Brush Manufacturing".
Edwin Withers started this business c1840s, his son William Edward Withers, took over from 1889 - 1912. William died 1912.
William lived in Wheeler street which I see runs between Nursery and Farm streets; streets where Edin had lived and especially Farm street where he operated his factory.
I have a photo of Withers Tobacco, which was also Edwin,s business; but would love to find an image of the bigger business, Rope or Brushes or both.
With grateful thanks
 
Not sure if this is right place to look for any sign or advertisement or notice of "Withers Rope and Brush Manufacturing".
Edwin Withers started this business c1840s, his son William Edward Withers, took over from 1889 - 1912. William died 1912.
William lived in Wheeler street which I see runs between Nursery and Farm streets; streets where Edin had lived and especially Farm street where he operated his factory.
I have a photo of Withers Tobacco, which was also Edwin,s business; but would love to find an image of the bigger business, Rope or Brushes or both.
With grateful thanks

In his 1888 Will, Edwin Withers referred to his property in 393 Farm Street as currently occupied by the "Phoenix Drug and Spice Mills".
Anybody ever heard of that business, and are there any images of Drug and Spice Mills?
Thanking you
 
You say that William Edward Withers took over the business from 1889 to 1912. But William filed, in 1882, for liquidation of Withers Brothers Rope and Brush Manufacturers along with his brother Henry Augustus Withers. This may account for the Phoenix.
 
Very grateful Astoness.
When looking through Trade Directories I couldn't find any reference to the business, so this is most helpful.
 
Not sure that Edwin Withers was a landowner. On his death in 1888 his main property was Granville House, Park Avenue, Soho Park. Whether he actually owned it is not clear, as it is advertised for sale as Leasehold with 63 years left.

2CFA984C-2980-4213-A52B-854E172828D9.jpeg
The map published 1890 shows Park Avenue and Granville House would be on the right side and somewhere in the middle. In the 1883 Kelly's Directory appears Withers Brothers, Rope and Twine Manufacturers, Manufacturers of pitch, papers and all kinds of house brushes, Birmingham ropery mills, 372 Park Road, Hockley.
 
Edwin Wither’s father, according to his marriage certificate in 1837, was Edward Weston Withers and described as an artist. There is a mention in 1829 of a chap of that name and described as a Gentleman from Edgbaston. This may suggest that he was not short of a bob or two.

Also on the 1837 marriage certificate Edwin is shown at Albion Street, but in the 1841 Census he is at Ravenhurst Street with his wife and 2 children. (The beginning of his property accumulation?). At that time he is described as a Tobacconist. In 1843 there is a Messrs Withers and Co. Tobacconists at 7 Worcester St and 93 Smallbrook St. (Who were the other Withers involved?)

By 1845 there is an Edwin Withers, Rope and Twine Manufacturers at 93 Smallbrook St, suggesting he may of branched out. In 1852 he moved to Farm Street, and advertised for 30 to 40 sacking makers. (Later Phoenix?)

In 1877 Edwin disposed of the business to Messrs Withers Brothers of 50 Great Hampton Street, and probably retired to Granville House. (Shown above). The brothers went into liquidation in 1882.

Edwin Withers progressed from Albion Street to Granville House, so he must have made a few shrewd investments. If he worked hard all his life then his employees must have worked even harder. The typical Rope Works is described in the link, note the women and boys.

 
The 1841 Pigot's directory lists an Edwin Withers, tobaconist at 17 Worcester St . Possibly the 17 is a misprint. In the 1845 directory , in addition to the Rope business at 93 Smallbrook St, at the same address he is listed as a snuff and cigar manufacturer. In the 1849 PO directory he is again listed as both at 93 Smallbrook St., but by the 1855 edition he is at Farm St, but only with the rope and twine business. I think it is probable that he moved from the Worcester St address in 1843, as in January 1843 he advertised a shop window and door for sale from his Worcester st address
Aris Birm Gazette. 16.1.1843.jpg
 
Am most grateful to you both Mikejee and Pedrocut, for your extensive and detailed researches.

Re Edwin's father: "Edward Weston Withers, artist and gentleman" Would you mind supplying the reference for your 1829 snippet, please? He died in 1819 intestate but his wife, Elizabeth Dean, claimed and was granted Administration of his estate valued at 800 pounds. So yes, he was not short of a bob or two.

Edwin's Will begins "Edwin Withers, late of Granville House Soho Park Handsworth in the County of Stafford, Gentleman deceased who died on 12th December 1888 at Granville House.
“[Probate] was proved and granted to Charles Ernest Withers, son and Fanny Louisa Withers, daughter… sworn 16 April 1889 Gross value £5257.4.0; Net value £5095.7.1; Resworn January 1890 £5294.16.4"

So yes, he died a well off gent. He inherited the estate of his Uncle who died with no surviving children, and whose brother Edward Weston had just the one son, Edwin. Edwin thus began in the tobacco shop very well of for a young man. Apart from the property sales you have picked up he looks to have invested in each property, kept the same, rented or leased out, and accumulated at his death a total of 13 properties. Thus by hard work and shrewd investments he became a 'gentleman' and in his death (1889 Advert for auction of his goods and chattels) was described as 'Esq'.

His property portfolio at death reads very well, and your researches amplify his position:

"Tenements in Snow Hill numbers 14 & 15
“Egyptian Hall” Snow Hill
Soho “Manufactory” Slaney Street Numbers 81-83
Dale End 83
Granville House Park Avenue Handsworth
Icneild Street shops Nrs 156, 157 -158; occupied by Mousley Bolton Clewley Hyde
Summer Lane Nr 196-197 occupied by Crisp Woodward
Windsor St Nr 171-181 (plus :)
Windsor Courts 5, 6, 9
Lower Dartmouth Street, occupied by Alfred Neal
Farm Street 393, the Phoenix Drug and Spice Mills
Cheapside Nr 122 , By Thomas William Howe
Ravenhurst St Nr 25-29

Ravenhurst had been occupied by his mother Elizabeth and his aunt for a time after his father's death; he also lived in Ravenhurst for a while before moving over to Park Ave, Soho.

Many thanks
 
Not sure that Edwin Withers was a landowner. On his death in 1888 his main property was Granville House, Park Avenue, Soho Park. Whether he actually owned it is not clear, as it is advertised for sale as Leasehold with 63 years left.

View attachment 143756
The map published 1890 shows Park Avenue and Granville House would be on the right side and somewhere in the middle. In the 1883 Kelly's Directory appears Withers Brothers, Rope and Twine Manufacturers, Manufacturers of pitch, papers and all kinds of house brushes, Birmingham ropery mills, 372 Park Road, Hockley.
Thanks for this map Pedrocut.
I have a photo of Granville House taken by the Handsworth Historical Society, in Park Ave. Now a mental health clinic, I believe.
With grateful thanks
 

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So Edwin Withers had a good start in life. His late father is referred to in the list of marriages in Aris's Gazette of March 1829, showing the marriage of S Vallant to his only daughter Elizabeth.

The first reference to tenements at 14 and 15 is interesting as J Watts had established a company in 1839 and traded from 14 Snow Hill in 1874. The Tobacco, Snuff and Cigar Manufactury Steam mills and termed Great Western Cigar Stores, James Watts. He acquired number 15 in 1875, but seems to disappear after 1879. (In 1843 No.14 is down as T Watts, Publication and Printing Office.)

In 1880 No.14 is advertised to Let as Egyptian Hall and could be used for lectures and services, capable of seating between 600 and 700 people. By 1882 it was the Egyptian Hall Billiards.

1883 Kelly, No.14 Egyptian Hall and John Clarkson, tobacconist. No.15 Birmingham Coffee House Ltd.

So did Edwin Withers obtain these properties some time around 1879? The term tenements suggests that there were apartments, but I can’t find reference as yet.
 
81-83 Slaney Street would probably be part of the Snow Hill deal as they back on to the Snow Hill premises.

In 1874 when James Watts acquired 15 Snow Hill, he also possessed 81 and 82 Slaney Street.
 
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