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Question about Midland Red Ladywood Road Garage

Thylacine

master brummie
Here's a question for the esteemed Midland Red experts on this forum. When BMMO (Midland Red) started in 1904 it acquired a garage in Ladywood Road (Edgbaston) from Birmingham Motor Express (BME). All motor buses were moved to the Bearwood garage by 16 Feb 1906 after which the Ladywood Road premises were used "for overhauls only". My question is: when did Midland Red stop using Ladywood Road and what became of the ex-BME garage there? Any information about the early garaging practices of Midland Red is welcome. :)
 
The BME Ladywood Rd premises were, to the best of my recollection (of reading about it, I'm not that old!), simply a yard attached to the Five Ways Inn. Nearby properties were acquired and a small garage built, and the yard roofed over. When the BMMO took over, the premises were too small for the increased fleet and the operational side was moved to the Bearwood horse bus depot, Ladywood Rd remaining as a maintainable facility. When the first experiments with motor buses was deemed a failure, services reverted to horse operation and there being no need for the Ladywood Rd premises they were closed in October 1908 and sub-let to a motor taxi company.

Bearwood Horse bus depot.
 
Yes, that's the place Dave. The first building next to the pub, with a low roof, was the original pub yard, and the next (coming towards the camera in the second view) is the garage - with a doorway just high enough for the original open-top buses.
 
Many thanks Lloyd and Dave for sharing your knowledge (and pictures). I hope you don't mind questions like these from an enthusiast who is a long long way from his origins! My only source of information (except for the internet!) is Peter Hardy's two-volume Fleet History of BMMO (and Stratford Blue) published by the Omnibus Society and PSV Circle in 1959 and 1961. This is a wonderful history, but every detail leaves me hungry for more information. So thanks again for your knowledge and helpfulness.
 
Another question on the early BMMO experience with motor buses. Peter Hardy states: "at the end of 1908 the double-deck bodies from eight Milnes-Daimlers and three Dourkopps still remained at West Smethwick depot awaiting disposal". Am I correct in assuming that the West Smethwick depot referred to was the Birmingham and Midland Tramways depot? So strictly not Midland Red premises (I realise that these companies were closely related).

And if I may ask yet another. When Birmingham Motor Express (BME) started up in early 1903 they operated 18-seat Milnes-Daimler "waggonettes" obtained second-hand from Bexhill Motor Co. Does anyone know how many of these were purchased and how old they were? Also any idea of their registration numbers? I understand this was before national vehicle registration was introduced, but BME's next batch of Mulliner-Napier motor buses were assigned the registration numbers 252, 291 and 292 (presumably by the Birmingham city authorities). So what of the earlier "waggonettes" (and is it too much to hope for a picture of one of these?).
 
Yes the West Smethwick B&MTJC depot was under the same BET ownership as BMMO, all under WGA Bond, who ran the whole midland BET operation from his office in Downing Street, Smethwick (the former power station for the BET Black Country tramways), and it was Bond's name as GM which appeared on the rocker panels of the trams although OC Power's name (as Traffic Manager) appeared on buses.

The numbers 252, 291/2 were Hackney Carriage plates - motor vehicle registration was not in use then. Plates from the same series appeared on horse buses as well.

I've always assumed that the first motor waggonettes were these, or very similar-

 
Thanks again Lloyd. Mr Bond must have ruled quite an empire from his Smethwick office! I've seen that intriguing picture of the Birmingham Motor Omnibus Co waggonette elsewhere on this forum. It's a splendid if somewhat mysterious picture - nothing more seems to be known about this operator. Are there any pictures out there of BMMO horse buses?
 
Whilst I can't say definitely whether or not the horse buses displayed the BMMO name, and the 'Midland' name only came with the 1913 Tilling TTA2 motor buses, this is a BET 3-horse bus on the Saltley - Bordesley Green route. Note the BET 'wheel and magnet' emblem on the side panel.
It is likely that the operator's name (written very small in the 'magnet' of the emblem) was 'Birmingham and Midland Tramways' like this one on 'Tividale' cars 5 and 34 at Black Country Museum
 
Thanks again Lloyd! What a fascinating period of Birmingham public transport history. Wonderful pictures!
 
I've done a bit of delving in the Street Directories in the old Kelly's directories to which I have access here. The properties were numbered consecutively on the northe-east side of the road, starting at the corner with Broad Street.
1 Ladywood Road: Five Ways Inn, Licensee William Ellis in 1899, Edward Oliver in 1900 and 1904, Walter Henry Bowkett 1908 and 1913
2-6 Ladywood Road - <no mention>
7 Ladywood Road: Edward Price, veterinary surgeon in 1899 and 1900 <presumably renumbered 7A by 1904>
"Five Ways Mews": Maginn Bros, cab proprietors in 1899, Bernard Maginn cab proprietor in 1900,
7A Ladywood Road: Henry Durnell, veterinary surgeon in 1904
7A Ladywood Road: Arthur Bellingham, coach maker in 1904
7A Ladywood Road: H Grove & Co., horse breakers in 1904 (I guess this was a trainer for fractious animals)
Unnumbered: (presumably old Five Ways Mews and perhaps 7 & 7A, but no mention in 1908) Provincial Motor Cab Co in 1913, Henry G Hayes, Manager.
8 Ladywood Road: Albert Buck, carpenter in 1899 & 1900 <no mention in 1904, 1908, 1913>
9 Ladywood Road: George Goulding, slater

It does not tell us much - obviously those were quite changing times for small businesses too.
Peter
 
Thanks for that Peter. Every piece of the jigsaw helps in the assembly of the "big picture".

Perhaps the Provincial Motor Cab Co was the firm that leased the Midland Red Five Ways depot from the end of 1908 (it was "let to a motor cab company").

Also Frederick Lanchester "moved to a larger workshops in Ladywood Rd, Five Ways, Birmingham" in the early 1890s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_W._Lanchester).
 
Lanchester moved to Ladywood road in 1897-98 according to Kingsford's biography. He is recorded at 33 Ladywood road in the 1899 and 1900 directory. He is not listed in the 1903 version though there is something called The Midland Motor Agency un-numbered but at approximately the same position in 1903-1905. By 1908 there is nothing motor-related on the site.
Mike
 
Thanks for that mikejee. The Midland Motor Agency has a resonant name! Lanchester was technical consultant to the Daimler Motor Co Ltd (Coventry) from 1909. Did he continue to live in Birmingham do you know?
 
Hi guys
i seem to remember the old midlanfd red single deckers and then eventualy the double deckers
when they brought out was stored and repaired at water works rd edgbaston which water works rd
is still there and as far as i know was taken ovr by the water department in years after
but these old buses was kept at this place right up until the mid fifties before moveing
to who no where from there [ water works rd lady wood ] so did they orininate from ladywood rd
which i can not recall ever seeing them on lady wood rd as i can recall the old lady wood rd
and the very old police station but the bus,s only further up the rd in water works rd ;
best wishes Astonian ;;
 
Looking into Kingsfords book (no index) Lanchester came to Birmingham in 1889, living at Olton, moved to alvechurch and then briefly to rooms at Lincolns inn in corporation St, In 1897 it is stated that he established a batchelor home at 53 Hagley Road, which is described as a house where he entertained. However, according to Kellys, no 53 seems to have been a boarding house till at least 1915 (It is a private house by 1921), so the author is either wrong in the address or on the facts. Apparently he moved to london in 1919
Mike
 
FW Lanchester, age 42, engineer, is in the 1911 census at 53 Hagley Road, a boarding house owned by 'Garner' (first name unreadable) along with six other lodgers (civil servants, retired or living on own means) and two domestic servants.
 
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