BordesleyExile
master brummie
As always, thank you Mike.
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Poole Farm Cottages, Rodwell Grove, Kingstanding
- Thread starter BordesleyExile
- Start date
Vivienne
I think the ordnance survey might be a trifle miffed if they heard their map described as being called basic, though the people have probably been dead for 80 years or so, so they aren't likely to complain ! It is from the first edition of their the OS maps, and the measurements were done pretty accurately. Up to very recently all maps were all hand drawn originally, and then reproduced by various processes. This is more obvious in the large scale maps where things like the individual little trees show up, but i am sure the cottages were where they said they were.
I think the ordnance survey might be a trifle miffed if they heard their map described as being called basic, though the people have probably been dead for 80 years or so, so they aren't likely to complain ! It is from the first edition of their the OS maps, and the measurements were done pretty accurately. Up to very recently all maps were all hand drawn originally, and then reproduced by various processes. This is more obvious in the large scale maps where things like the individual little trees show up, but i am sure the cottages were where they said they were.
Oops sorry if I've upset anyone! Really appreciate having access to these things and for everyones efforts. Like I say, not too hot on things geographical. Regards Viv.
This link
https://www.perrybarrbeyond.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/07%20-%20W%20-%20Whately.htm gives details of an auction of a mixed farm known as Warren and Pool Farm in 1921. I wonder if it is connected with Pool Farm Cottages? Here's an extract
https://www.perrybarrbeyond.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/07%20-%20W%20-%20Whately.htm gives details of an auction of a mixed farm known as Warren and Pool Farm in 1921. I wonder if it is connected with Pool Farm Cottages? Here's an extract
AT WARREN FARM
THE FARM BUILDING WHICH ARE BRICK BUILT, HAVE TILED ROOFS, AND COMPRISE:- COACH HOUSE, STABLING FOR 15, PIG STY, THREE AND TWO BY WAGON SHEDS, COW HOUSE FOR 14, MIXING HOUSE, BARN, LOOSE BOX, SHED, BOILER HOUSE, OIL HOUSE, SADDLE HOUSE, COVERED YARD.
AT POOL FARM
BRICK AND TILE STABLING FOR SIX, WITH LOFT, DOUBLE BARN, CART SHED, COWHOUSE FOR SIX, ETC., THERE ARE FOUR BRICK BUILT COTTAGES, TWO AT POOL FARM, EACH CONTAINING – 3 BEDROOMS, SITTING ROOM, KITCHEN, SCULLERY, AND OUTSIDE E.C. TWO OPPOSITE THE BEGGAR’S BUSH, OLD CHESTER ROAD, EACH CONTAINING TWO BEDROOMS, SITTING ROOM, KITCHEN, CELLAR, OUTSIDE E.C. COMPANY’S WATER.
THE WHOLE EXTENDING TO SOME
308 ACRES 1 ROOD 8 POLES
Any help do you think? Viv
Thanks Lyn. I also think I know where Pool Farm was. It was on Holly Lane, now Kingstanding Road. I've gleaned this from the perrbarrbeyound link in post 34. It also says that George Towers was Farmer there in 1881 and 1888. Lots of pieces of the puzzle, but do they fit together ?!! Head's spinning.... Viv.
That's fantastic Lyn. Thank you. It's great to try an unravel these things, but it takes a lot of energy. Really appreciate everyone's effort and enthusiasm. I think I'll call it a day too! Regards Viv.
Glad you weren't offended. In the short time I've been involved with this forum I've found members are so willing to give their time and effort, I don't want to appear to take that for granted. And I appreciate the resources people freely offer to make researching B'ham history such fun. Many thanks Mike for your help. Viv.
A couple more points that I've come across. On the Perrybarr beyond site (see post 34) there is a change of farmer in 1894. At this time, Mr A Wells was farmer of Pool and Warren Farms, Holly Lane. Prior to this in 1888 Mr Wells was farmer of "Warren and Cottage Farm" . Wonder if this was the full title for Warren Farm or did this mean Warren Farm and Cottage Farm, or Warren Farm and a cottage farm. And is it at all linked to our cottages? Just a thought to throw into the pot, but could well amount to nothing!
The other info I've come across is that there was a Birmingham Housing Compulsory Order in 1928 to acquire 450 acres of land occupied by Warren Farm and Kingsvale Farm estates, obviously prior to the massive 30's Kingstanding housing development programme. I've never seem a compulsory order but wonder if this or the discussions by the Housing Committee relating to it would reveal anything about the Pool Farm Cottages. Would papers about the 30's development be held anywhere? Central library perhaps? Again, just another idea to mull over. Viv.
The other info I've come across is that there was a Birmingham Housing Compulsory Order in 1928 to acquire 450 acres of land occupied by Warren Farm and Kingsvale Farm estates, obviously prior to the massive 30's Kingstanding housing development programme. I've never seem a compulsory order but wonder if this or the discussions by the Housing Committee relating to it would reveal anything about the Pool Farm Cottages. Would papers about the 30's development be held anywhere? Central library perhaps? Again, just another idea to mull over. Viv.
Doesn't add much, but the 1817 map below shows that the farm shown on the 1886 map was also there in 1817. The scale is so small , however that minor cottages wouldn't have shown. The pool to the east of the farm is called the common pool then.
mike
mike
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Thanks Mike. A nice find and an interesting map. So utterly empty compared to what the area would become 100 or so years later. Doubtless there had been a few highwaymen around the area (does that say Gibbit Hill ?) Does anyone know if the Lodge was Kingstanding Lodge or would that have been somewhere else? I'm finding exploring the history of the Kingstanding area in this way absolutely fascinating. Viv.
BordesleyExile
master brummie
Thanks Mike.
Its a bit peculiar Vivienne, but I estimated where the Lodge was (about half way between the Common (or Lodge) Pool and the road to the south, and the only building there is Warren Farm. so it seems possible that Warren Farm is , or is on the site of, the Lodge.
mike
mike
Mike I think I remember seeing a photo of Warren Farm, and if it's the one I'm thinking of, I did think how unlike it seemed to be to a traditional farm. If the pic was Warren Farm, it was quite grand and had a Dutch style to it. Will have to have a look around and see if I can find the pic. I have a feeling that if we can make sense of the neighbouring buildings, albeit through loose connections, we'd know a bit more about the cottages. Thanks for that. Viv.
I've had a look at Mike's old maps links on this thread and there's a 1904 map on there labelling the buildings near to Lodge Pool as being Pool Farm ( however, afraid I don't know how to post the map). The map also shows, as Mike's 1880s maps do, a footpath or lane directly linking Pool Farm and Warren Farm. Alongside the Lodge Pool are the words "Hydraulic ****" (can't decipher the second bit) which suggests to me that this was probably being used for some sort of activity. Wonder if this related to the farm(s)? Viv.
Very helpful Mike. No, don't know what "hydraulic Ram" means either. But ' hydraulic' suggests to me something controlled and maybe industrial. I wonder if it's supposed to be "dam". Do you know if those grass-like clumps in the area of Lodge Pool suggest a real pool/lake/pond or do you think it's marshland? And a closer look at that pathway/lane from Warren Farm to Pool Farm definitely seems to link the 2 farms. Appreciate your help. Again not sure where this leads but all very interesting! Viv.
https://images.birminghamhistory.co...userpics/10014/Warren_Farm_Estate_in_1929.JPG
For general interest. Came across this lovely (albeit almost unbelieveable) pic of the Warren Farm Estate in 1929. Nice haymaking scene. Must have been very fertile agricultural land right up until the 1930's Kingstanding development. Viv.
View attachment 65698
For general interest. Came across this lovely (albeit almost unbelieveable) pic of the Warren Farm Estate in 1929. Nice haymaking scene. Must have been very fertile agricultural land right up until the 1930's Kingstanding development. Viv.
View attachment 65698
BordesleyExile
master brummie
You are making some good finds, Viv. Thank you.
Interesting to think that the 1929 photo was taken during economic depression. We will never know whether the men are career farmhands or whether they have moved from industrial Birmingham.
Interesting to think that the 1929 photo was taken during economic depression. We will never know whether the men are career farmhands or whether they have moved from industrial Birmingham.
Hi Bordesleyexile. No it's a pity we can't discover more about them. What we do know however is that Warren Farm estate in 1921 was at least 308 acres, approximately 0.48 sq. miles. When auctioned in 1921 it included Warren and Pool Farm. So I'd expect there were quite a few regular workers to support it. And wouldn't it be great to discover that someone in the picture was living at Pool Farm Cottages? As you say, unfortunately, we'll probably never know. Regards Viv.
BordesleyExile
master brummie
If Warren Farm is your project Viv, & you live locally, you could investigate the 1844(ish) tithe maps which will show every building & list owners, occupiers & possibly more. Sandwell & Birmingham Library might be locations where the records are held.
Afraid I no longer live locally. My interest in the area goes back to when I lived there as a child. I lived there in the 50's and 60's. I find it especially interesting because the area was predominantly rural until the Kingstanding development. What an impact that must have made in all sorts if ways. If I wasn't so far away I'd love to delve into the resources available locally. But alas ....... Thanks for the helpful advice bordesleyexile. Viv
Ex Staff Member {Maggies}
proper brummie kid
I have just posted this onto the end of two posts from Astoness so I'll post it here as well then everyone can read it.......
Dear Astoness,
I apologise for the amount of time that has lapsed since you first posted your item on Pool Farm Cottages.
My Great Uncle Augustine owned Pool Farm Cottages, Pool Farm and Warren Farm.
His full name was Augustine Lewis Wells and he was the youngest brother of my Great Grandfather, Thomas.
The family of the time, the early 1800's to the first quarter of the 20th century were farmers.
They farmed or owned and leased out a number of farms around what is now Kingstanding.
I say now because at the time that my Great Uncle lived at Warren Farm it came under Handsworth.
Augustine was farming at Warren Farm around the 1880's and up until just before his death in 1934.
I have a map from 1834 that shows Lodge Pool and Warren Farm.
Next to Lodge Pool is a small square symbol, although it isn't labelled it is in the approximate position of Pool Farm and the cottages.
In 1881, Augustine's nephew (or to put it another way, my cousin), Thomas lived at No. 2 Pool Cottage.
He lived there with his wife Louisa and their two sons, George and Philip (they later had a daughter).
Charles, Thomas's brother was also living there in 1881.
Both Thomas and Charles were bailiffs to Warren Farm.
My Great Grandfather, in 1881, farmed at Witton Lodge Farm which was on the other side of the College Road from Warren Farm.
He lived there with his first wife, Jane, and the first few of their 9 children (7 girls and 2 boys).
My Great Grandfather purchased and moved to Oscott Farm (it stood on School Lane, Old Oscott, now Oscott School Lane) where he lived until he died in 1922.
As far as I know, my Great Grandmother, Teresa Ursula (my Great Grandfather's second wife), lived there until she died in 1940.
Augustine spent his last days at St Anthony's in Four Oaks (I believe it was a form of Care Home) before dying in September, 1934.
Augustine and Thomas are buried at Erdington Abbey as are a great number of the Wells's family.
Augustine wasn't only a farmer, he was also a Justice of the Peace, a Councillor and both Vice-Chairman and Chairman of the West Bromwich Board of Guardians.
When Lady Bateman-Scott of Great Barr Hall died in 1909, Augustine was the Chairman of the West Bromwich Board of Guardians and he suggested to the Committee that they purchase Great Barr Hall and Great Barr Park and start " Great Barr Colony ".
They were successful and in 1912, Great Barr Colony (later to be called St Margaret's Hospital), was opened.
Four homes were originally built and one of them was named " Wells Home " in honour of my Great Uncle.
I realise that this is more information than your original post warranted but perhaps it will help to fill in more of the history of the Kingstanding area.
Augustine was the first person in Kingstanding to own a Rolls Royce, he was also the first person in Kingstanding to have a phone put in.
With best wishes from Rod.
P.S. it is only a coincidence that Pool Farm Cottages are now in Rodwell Grove and my name is Rod Wells.
Dear Astoness,
I apologise for the amount of time that has lapsed since you first posted your item on Pool Farm Cottages.
My Great Uncle Augustine owned Pool Farm Cottages, Pool Farm and Warren Farm.
His full name was Augustine Lewis Wells and he was the youngest brother of my Great Grandfather, Thomas.
The family of the time, the early 1800's to the first quarter of the 20th century were farmers.
They farmed or owned and leased out a number of farms around what is now Kingstanding.
I say now because at the time that my Great Uncle lived at Warren Farm it came under Handsworth.
Augustine was farming at Warren Farm around the 1880's and up until just before his death in 1934.
I have a map from 1834 that shows Lodge Pool and Warren Farm.
Next to Lodge Pool is a small square symbol, although it isn't labelled it is in the approximate position of Pool Farm and the cottages.
In 1881, Augustine's nephew (or to put it another way, my cousin), Thomas lived at No. 2 Pool Cottage.
He lived there with his wife Louisa and their two sons, George and Philip (they later had a daughter).
Charles, Thomas's brother was also living there in 1881.
Both Thomas and Charles were bailiffs to Warren Farm.
My Great Grandfather, in 1881, farmed at Witton Lodge Farm which was on the other side of the College Road from Warren Farm.
He lived there with his first wife, Jane, and the first few of their 9 children (7 girls and 2 boys).
My Great Grandfather purchased and moved to Oscott Farm (it stood on School Lane, Old Oscott, now Oscott School Lane) where he lived until he died in 1922.
As far as I know, my Great Grandmother, Teresa Ursula (my Great Grandfather's second wife), lived there until she died in 1940.
Augustine spent his last days at St Anthony's in Four Oaks (I believe it was a form of Care Home) before dying in September, 1934.
Augustine and Thomas are buried at Erdington Abbey as are a great number of the Wells's family.
Augustine wasn't only a farmer, he was also a Justice of the Peace, a Councillor and both Vice-Chairman and Chairman of the West Bromwich Board of Guardians.
When Lady Bateman-Scott of Great Barr Hall died in 1909, Augustine was the Chairman of the West Bromwich Board of Guardians and he suggested to the Committee that they purchase Great Barr Hall and Great Barr Park and start " Great Barr Colony ".
They were successful and in 1912, Great Barr Colony (later to be called St Margaret's Hospital), was opened.
Four homes were originally built and one of them was named " Wells Home " in honour of my Great Uncle.
I realise that this is more information than your original post warranted but perhaps it will help to fill in more of the history of the Kingstanding area.
Augustine was the first person in Kingstanding to own a Rolls Royce, he was also the first person in Kingstanding to have a phone put in.
With best wishes from Rod.
P.S. it is only a coincidence that Pool Farm Cottages are now in Rodwell Grove and my name is Rod Wells.
Ex Staff Member {Maggies}
proper brummie kid
Hello again everyone,
Further to the Pool Farm and Warren Farm saga, I think someone mentioned a George Towers.
George and Augustine were cousins and they farmed, I believe, Oldford Farm (and not Holdford farm) together before Warren Farm came into the picture.
Whichever farm it was, either Oldford or Holford Farm, was near to the Zig-Zag bridge on the College Road.
Kettlehouse Farm, Kings Vale Farm, College Farm, Warren Farm, Witton Lodge Farm, Oscott Farm, Stone House Farm, Park Farm and Aldridge Road Farm were all farms that were either owned or leased by different members of my family.
Manor farm, near to Maryvale School was also owned by a member of one branch of the family.
The only things that remain of these farms and anything that connects members of my family to the farms that I know of are, Pool Farm Cottages and the cottages that stand next to the Hare and Hounds Public House.
I don't know if they still are, but they used to be called Beech Tree Cottages and two or three of them weren't leased by Augustine Lewis Wells for his farm workers.
With best wishes to all from Rod.
Further to the Pool Farm and Warren Farm saga, I think someone mentioned a George Towers.
George and Augustine were cousins and they farmed, I believe, Oldford Farm (and not Holdford farm) together before Warren Farm came into the picture.
Whichever farm it was, either Oldford or Holford Farm, was near to the Zig-Zag bridge on the College Road.
Kettlehouse Farm, Kings Vale Farm, College Farm, Warren Farm, Witton Lodge Farm, Oscott Farm, Stone House Farm, Park Farm and Aldridge Road Farm were all farms that were either owned or leased by different members of my family.
Manor farm, near to Maryvale School was also owned by a member of one branch of the family.
The only things that remain of these farms and anything that connects members of my family to the farms that I know of are, Pool Farm Cottages and the cottages that stand next to the Hare and Hounds Public House.
I don't know if they still are, but they used to be called Beech Tree Cottages and two or three of them weren't leased by Augustine Lewis Wells for his farm workers.
With best wishes to all from Rod.
