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Phrase meaning: Back of Rackhams

33bus

master brummie
at the risk of a red card .. My mother used to say "I LL HAVE TO GO THE BACK OF RACKHAMS"NEARLY ALWAYS ON A THURSDAY WHEN SHE WAS SHORT OF HOUSE KEEPING .AND MY SISTER (6YRS OLODER ) EXCLAIMING MOM!!! AND ALWAYS NODDED HER HEAD MY WAY ,I was in my teens before I realised what she was implying hardly scientific but adds colour to your post cheers Tom:D
 
at the risk of a red card .. My mother used to say "I LL HAVE TO GO THE BACK OF RACKHAMS"NEARLY ALWAYS ON A THURSDAY WHEN SHE WAS SHORT OF HOUSE KEEPING .AND MY SISTER (6YRS OLODER ) EXCLAIMING MOM!!! AND ALWAYS NODDED HER HEAD MY WAY ,I was in my teens before I realised what she was implying hardly scientific but adds colour to your post cheers Tom:D
That's what I recall it meaning as well.
 
My recollection of what "Back of Rackhams" meant - I found out by offering to meet some friends at the back of Rackhams back in the 70's - of course I meant by the Cathedral!
 
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:shifty: Yes - :shifty: - I sure we have all made that mistake Mary :shifty: ....
 
I think this is an interesting topic, however, I am really wondering just when the phrase was first coined. The reason I mention this is that before the Cobden was demolished to make way for the new Rackhams building, the old Rackhams was on the corner of Temple Row and Bull Street. More or less the same place as Mappin and Webb were situated once the new build was completed. If the phrase is as old as I think it is, the Back of Rackhams would have been in a totally different position.

Shortie
 
I think this is an interesting topic, however, I am really wondering just when the phrase was first coined. The reason I mention this is that before the Cobden was demolished to make way for the new Rackhams building, the old Rackhams was on the corner of Temple Row and Bull Street. More or less the same place as Mappin and Webb were situated once the new build was completed. If the phrase is as old as I think it is, the Back of Rackhams would have been in a totally different position.

Shortie

A good point Shortie, thanks. Perhaps the back of Rackhams was Cherry Street or even the North Western Arcade?

I am wondering if that early shop is what is shown in OldMohawk's post-#17?
 
... I have to confess that I was so fascinated by Rackhams that I was not aware of "back of Rackhams".

Pity we missed "Wallop Mrs Cox - The Birmingham Musical" https://www.birminghamhippodrome.com/whatson_focus.asp?showid=1653 With songs like Hello Bull Ring, The Back of Rackhams, Twenty Four Hours a Day and the show’s anthem Birmingham, it combines deliciously sarcastic dialogue with the dialect synonymous with this great City. Wallop gets audiences laughing, crying and on their feet cheering with pride.

Set in the Bull Ring, Brummagem history is relived through the eyes of Emily Cox, mother of thirteen and matriarch of the community. Five actresses play her as she ages from a young girl to an old lady, living through change, turbulence and two world wars....Hope they revive it
 
Pity we missed "Wallop Mrs Cox - The Birmingham Musical" ...

Indeed! (And it didn't make it to Tasmania — as usual :cry:). But the "Wallop Mrs Cox" website allows us to listen to some of the songs (sadly not "Back of Rackhams" though), and offers a souvenir poster and other goodies. "Brum-derful!" ;)
 
I feel as though I missed out on the musical Wallop Mrs Cox. I do not think it made it to deepest Hampshire. Pity.
 
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Back of Rackhams..havent heard that in years, it has made me laugh this morning when I read everyone trying to locate it..eeh wait till I tell my mom..so funny

Bernie
 
Oh Dear. I fear Aidan may have inadvertently opened a can of worms with this one. Arthur Rackham (1867 -1939), was probably better known as an Illustrator of kiddie’s books. Most notably “Rip Van’s Winkles Off” and “Alice in Mothercare”. The fact that he inadvertently gave his name to the euphemistic ‘back of Rackham’s’ legend in the process, is perhaps more of a testament to Mrs Rackham’s location to her husband whilst in transit, rather than the implication of any predilection for ‘robust adult pursuits’ in the environs of Cherry Street and St Philips’ Churchyard - if you catch my drift. Ahem. However, I admit that she may only have herself to blame, as I think you can see from the illustration featuring Rackham and spouse how much of a “Cheryl” she looks. I know. Give a dog a bad name… Whatever, GOK how or why he came to then open a big shop in Corporation Street, but I’m sure Aidan or Thylacine will know…?

The second illustration from Arthur’s catalogue typifies, allegedly, what went on in the Churchyard in those days…I think the truth is self evident.

Anyway, whatever the historic truth, my diagnostic attachment to Willie Fowler’s STD clinic at Ward 19, just at the back of the Dr Ash’s General Hospital over in Whittall Street in the late 60s certainly led me to believe that any ‘fun and games’ at the ‘back of Rackhams’ was like that on Buckingham Palace lawn compared with what went on in Varna Rd after lights out. So, I hope that’s a little clearer now.

Dennis
 
Hmmm - well it could be another possibility for the origin of the phrase - especially if one were STD crazed, I prefer a shot of ECT myself...

I do love Arthur Rackham's work. In a review of "The Goblin Market" written by Christina Rossetti<pic 2 Portrait of her by brother and wombat worrier Dante Gabriel Rossetti)> & illustrated by Rackham <pic1>, Daniel Jolley says:

"Goblin Market, a verse fairy tale that was first published in 1862, is a rather fascinating piece of masterful poetry. It tells a wonderfully sensuous tale that has inspired a myriad of interpretations. I've spent more time reading about Goblin Market than I did actually reading it - savoring it, rather, for it really calls for a much more personal treatment than a mere reading. This pre-Raphaelite work harbors latent eroticism that echoes with both renunciation and desire. Thus, some term it a work of repressed Victorian eroticism and grin knowingly (and leeringly) as they recount the fact that Goblin Market was quite a popular children's fairy tale in its day. Christine Rossetti was herself a recluse along the lines of Emily Dickinson, allowing her heart to sing freely even as she kept herself separated from any possible objects of her latent desires.

In the poem, one sister gives in to the temptation of the forbidden fruit offered by the dark goblins forever lurking in the twilight to seduce their victims to a first taste of their exotic wares. The desire to obtain more of the passion fruit overtakes her young life, yet the goblins appear to her no more; as a result, she begins to waste away near to death. At this point, her sister, who sensibly avoided temptation, willingly seeks to bargain with the goblins, only to have them force their juicy wares upon her. The fruity residue is enough, however, to revive her sister. The act of salvation is obviously the juiciest part of the story on a number of levels - such a sensual act between sisters, with lines such as "Hug me, kiss me, suck my juices" and "Eat me, drink me, love me," cries out for interpretation of all kinds - and those quick to criticize the hypocritical prudishness of Victorian society have a veritable field day with it.

Some say this is not a poem for children's ears? Balderdash. Like any masterful work of poetry, Goblin Market can be read and interpreted on many levels. Children will delight in its lyrical rhyming patterns, its allusions to wee goblins hawking the most delicious of fruits, and interpret the salvation of the tempted sister in comparatively innocent terms. I say leave the interpretations to the adults. And what interpretations there are of this lengthy poem. Some see in it a recreation of the genesis story, a story of sacrifice and redemption, a tale of lesbian yearning, a declaration of the power of sisterhood, a commentary on women as commodities in market society, evidence of sexual molestation by Rossetti's father, etc. There's no limit to the interpretations put forth about what is, on the surface, an engaging fairy tale set to verse.

This is a fascinating work of lyrical poetry that can be read fairly quickly yet will sustain your interest through multiple readings, all sorts of fascinating research into analysis and interpretation, and just plain wonderment. As sensual as it is beautiful, Goblin Market is probably one of the most fascinating and insightful products of Victorian literature."

...As far as I can see he lived at Limpsfield. Now if we could only tie Arthur to the Birmingham shop site....

I think "Varna Rd after lights out" deserves it's own thread (if not best-selling book)
 
The old saying years ago ;
if you want to do any funny bussiness go the back of the co/op
its double divie ; was said fairly often by kids ;
 
i remember the saying "the back of rackhams "...if you went to the back of rackhams you were up to no good ..ladies of the night used to patrol there ...
 
I think you may not be amused by the phrase Back of Rackhams, I'm quite sure that this referred to the fact that it was the place to meet certain ladies of the night
 
Yes, Geoff, that's why when people ran short of money they said they would have to go to 'The Back of Rackhams'. We were not sure where the back was, Rackhams was on a different site prior to 1959, and the thread has done a fantastic job of pulling out all sorts of queries, too.

Shortie
 
The North Western Arcade is still in a T shape now, but sadly, nothing like as grand, and I can also remember the entrance into Greys. I still think the phrase 'Back of Rackhams' came out a long time before Rackhams was in its present position, so the back of Rackhams may well have been in the arcade. This would mean they had shelter, and privacy to an extent. Easy to ply your trade (I would have thought) from an arcade.

Shortie
 
Thank you Shortie - that's a relief. I (now) notice that the T Tunnel is clearly shown on Google Maps https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=52...2.481405,-1.895715&spn=0.001614,0.003449&z=18 although Streetview (undated) shows the Bull St entrance blocked off https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=52...=yhby2l58K12hIi1qY5e1ig&cbp=12,248.93,,0,9.06

I like the theory that it was in the arcade - we have had guesses on each side of the block and now the middle! (perhaps best thought of as everywhere and nowhere) - and if so one of the upper balconies must surely have been favourite "take a stroll along the upper terrace Guv'nor?"
 
Sounds very feasible Aidan. Sadly, I have to go now and finish packing, but I shall be back in a few days. I am really enjoying this thread.

Shortie
 
I think Temple Row was a place of after hours business...in the dark...at the west end, even in our days. It was not well lit there and there were sheltered un-lit building entrances...probably converted to office buildings in those days...workers gone home. Needlers Passage was close by too, although I can't remember going down there ever but on occasion would cut along Waterloo street and down the steps to New Street.
Walked past such an event as a youth...quickly walked by...too embarrased to look. It was dark anyway. Strange, the things you keep locked away, out of shyness I suppose; first time that I have ever recounted that event. I changed my route after that.
 
I have been ruminating some more on Upton's graphic description of Needless Alley and the people that inhabited it that I posted on Dennis's Thread https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33053&p=343380#post343380

When a location gets such a very bad name, it is possible that it retains that association in people's minds long after it has cleaned its act up. Perhaps it might be possible that that part of upper Needless Alley and Temple Row became the "Back of Rackhams" of repute?
 
This has probably been mentioned before as I haven´t read right through.
In the early 60s the night service buses used to terminate at the back of Rackhams & it became a popular place for the "ladies of the night" to ply their trade (edited)
Hence the saying "I´ll have to go up the back of Rackhams" when housekeeping was running short.
 
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Oh Dear. I fear Aidan may have inadvertently opened a can of worms with this one. Arthur Rackham (1867 -1939), was probably better known as an Illustrator of kiddie’s books. Most notably “Rip Van’s Winkles Off” and “Alice in Mothercare”. The fact that he inadvertently gave his name to the euphemistic ‘back of Rackham’s’ legend in the process, is perhaps more of a testament to Mrs Rackham’s location to her husband whilst in transit, rather than the implication of any predilection for ‘robust adult pursuits’ in the environs of Cherry Street and St Philips’ Churchyard - if you catch my drift. Ahem. However, I admit that she may only have herself to blame, as I think you can see from the illustration featuring Rackham and spouse how much of a “Cheryl” she looks. I know. Give a dog a bad name… Whatever, GOK how or why he came to then open a big shop in Corporation Street, but I’m sure Aidan or Thylacine will know…?

The second illustration from Arthur’s catalogue typifies, allegedly, what went on in the Churchyard in those days…I think the truth is self evident.

Anyway, whatever the historic truth, my diagnostic attachment to Willie Fowler’s STD clinic at Ward 19, just at the back of the Dr Ash’s General Hospital over in Whittall Street in the late 60s certainly led me to believe that any ‘fun and games’ at the ‘back of Rackhams’ was like that on Buckingham Palace lawn compared with what went on in Varna Rd after lights out. So, I hope that’s a little clearer now.

Dennis
Apologies for being a little late in replying (9 years!) but this 'Back Of Rackhams' business has only just come to my notice. I actually wrote the song fifteen years prior to my musical 'Wallop Mrs Cox' hitting the stage. One of the first times I performed the song was in the old Lenches Trust Alms Houses just off Five Ways in 1985 ish. The chap who oversaw the business side of Lenches charity, and reall well read bloke when it came to Birmingham history, told me that the original Rackham's shop was sited on Colmore Row, on the same side as the Grand Hotel. The Rackham's shop backed onto the Church Street area, which was a real humdinger of a red light district of the time. Hence the suggestion of debauchery around 'The back of Rackhams'. Anyway, I hope my song, and all the other 'brummie' stuff put smiles on your faces. Cheers. Laurie
 
hello laurie your songs have always bought a smile to my face (got them on cd) also love the song a face as long as livery street...serves as a reminder of the times that a lot of us remember but sadly most of it has gone now...all the best

lyn
 
I don't know if the fraise "THE BACK OF RACKHAMS" came to be in the first half of the 1900's or if it was coined in association to the current building. The saying as I understand it was meant to be a nod and a wink to the Idea that a lady on hard times may be able to make ends meet if she frequented the "Back of Rackham's!" I think it is most likely a throw back to the old branch in Bull St. back in the Edwardian era.
 
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