Oscott Colleges (old Oscott And New Oscott)

[Vivienne14]

That's really interesting Lyn. I did wonder if it was anything to do with Oscott College. I think it was once a theological college and also school. I really ought to know about this as it's almost at the end of the road I lived in for about 18 years! Used to play in that field, and go into the church and light the candles, dear oh dear, the things we did........ I'm off to do a bit of digging around. Viv.

 

[Astoness]

hi viv i thought this may grab your attention and interest..ive never seen the buriel ground marked on a map before..really hoping some info can be found out about it..

lyn

 

[Ray Griffiths]

Hi Lyn.

Hope you are keeping well, I see you still working hard on Brums History.

I moved from Aston 1942 to 101 Birdbrook Rd we used to go there as kids playing in a brook which ran from Maryvale which I'm sure there used to be a Maryvale Convent I remember being chase by the Nuns that used to live in the builds.

It was all fields round there 1942 and none of the road was adopted they was just rough tracks like Dyas Rd was when the old sand pit was there.

The brook ran from Maryvale down the centre of the back gardens of the houses on the Kingstanding Rd side of Birdbrook Rd. and end at the bottom of Birdbrook in a swamp like land that used to a part of Brooklyn Farm, I think they used to grow Watercress there.

In fact 107 Birdbrook Rd. used to have the remains of a footbridge in the back garden, the brook was supposed to have been filled in when the house were built, but I remember the rear of most properties used to flood during the winter m onths for many years.

At the bottom Goodway Rd before the junction with Birdbrook on the lefthand side used to be a very large crater which fill up with water.

Coming back to Maryvale I'm sure there was a church there which was turned into school house if remember right, the burial grounds would be that clump of trees to left of the college.

I think if you could find any info on Maryvale Convent it might help.


I'll see if I can turn anything up for you.

Ray

 

[jennyann]

I like Bill Dargue's page on Oscott College. It is very possible that there is a graveyard in the area as there were some very dangerous diseases around when the place was used as a school. https://billdargue.jimdo.com/placenames-gazetteer-a-to-y/places-o/oscott/

 

[jennyann]

Bit more on the history of St. Mary's at Old Ascott. Taken from the British History Online site: I could see Oscott College from my bedroom window when I was growing up.

T. MARY, Maryvale: Old Oscott Hill. In 1838, (fn. 81) when Oscott College moved to New Oscott, the old college became its preparatory school for a few years. (fn. 82) In 1846 Newman and his fellow converts settled there and Newman named it Maryvale. He returned there from Rome in 1847 as an Oratorian. (fn. 83) The Oratory settled in Birmingham in 1849 (fn. 84) and Maryvale seems to have been occupied by the Oblates of Mary Immaculate until c. 1851. (fn. 85) The mission was then intermittently served from New Oscott until after 1856, when it had its own priest. (fn. 86) In 1851 the former college itself became an orphanage of the Sisters of Mercy. (fn. 87) The new church, opened in 1937 and consecrated in 1953, (fn. 88) is built on a sloping site and is of soft red brick sparingly dressed with stone. The tall rectangular west tower has louvred belfry openings. The west door, surmounted by a large stone figure of the Virgin, leads into a lateral passage, at one end of which is the gallery staircase and at the other a finely-moulded octagonal stone font, apparently belonging to an earlier church. The interior consists of a nave with narrow passage aisles, shallow transepts and a chancel terminating in a small ambulatory. All the openings in the church have semi-circular heads and are unmoulded.

 

[Astoness]

jenny is the college still there or is that a silly question...

 

[Astoness]

what a fine building..

oscott college from an engraving..

 

[Vivienne14]

If I've got this right, going a bit further back in time, these seem to be the key points in the timeline - quite long history:
- a mission was set up on the slopes of Oscott Hill in the17th century by Father Andrew Bromwich who bequeathed his home, Oscott House, to pay for a priest in the area,
- the house was re-built in 1752 as St Mary's Institute,
- 1794 it became a college for boys and ecclessiastics,
- by 1837 the college and school had outgrown the Old Oscott site so a college - I assume for the ecclessiatics - was built at New Oscott (so named to distinguish it from Old Oscott. It was near to the Chester Rd/College junction, built on the site of Holdford Farm),
- in the 1860s the Old Oscott school had outbreaks of sickness.

So I wonder if that's a factor in the cemetery being marked on the map. I see there's a hospital marked on there too, so I expect that might also be a reason.

I too remember fields around the church at the top of Old Oscott. Viv.

 

[Astoness]

viv there was also a princess alice orphanage and a hospice for sick children...

 

[Vivienne14]

what a fine building..

Great pictures Lyn. This is where it gets confusing for me because there's Old Oscott and New Oscott. I've been trying to work out what went on and where. Nice topic to mull over the weekend. Thanks Lyn! Good one. Viv

 

[Astoness]

anything to keep you out of trouble viv lol..im afraid that although i have an interest in this area its not my neck o the woods so im hoping you experts can sort this one out...

 

[Goffy]

Hi, Astoness, Ive just been looking at "Bing Maps" and their birdseye feature, looking at your map there is a light coloured square just to the right of the clump of trees and to the left of the college. if you zoom in on this with bing there appears to be a small "courtyard" , gravel floor probably in the centre of which there is an object which could be a memorial stone with 4 pathways leading from it, there is what appears to be a bench on the right hand side of the square and a gateway leading to a path which runs alongside the college
I think that is where you may find the remains of that burial ground.

Goffy

 

[Astoness]

hi geoffy...i wonder if you could post this bing map for me please...if it is possable i may have a look and try and find this spot where the buriel ground was but i would need to know exactly how to get to it..

thank you..

lyn

 

[Goffy]

Hi Astoness, the site you need is the bing search engine, if its not available on your comuter already you will find it at
www.bing.com it is similar to google with a menu across the top of the screen, you will find the maps section there
once you have zoomed in to the area then use the "birdseye" feature and have a look around.

good luck

Goffy

 

[Astoness]

ok goffy...i will see if i can locate the exact spot..

cheers

 

[Vivienne14]

Hi Lyn. I've now had a good look at your two maps and I'm almost certain that the burial ground is underneath what is now the Cardinal Wiseman Technical College. The patch of ground is behind Our Lady of the Assumption Church on Old Oscott Hill (built in 1957) and covers the ground over to Templeton Road. I remember when that was fields. I'm surprised it was built upon. I think it must have been ground which belonged to the Old Oscott College. Viv.

 

[Astoness]

viv im also surprised if the ground was built on..i can find my way to cardinal wisman but im wondering if maybe the buriel ground may not be exactly under it...maybe the college has some info on it...i think when i have time i will make enquires about it...

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

Great pictures Lyn. This is where it gets confusing for me because there's Old Oscott and New Oscott. I've been trying to work out what went on and where. Nice topic to mull over the weekend. Thanks Lyn! Good one. Viv

Hi lyn been trying to find out some more about the burial ground, but not come up with anything yet. Also been looking into the colleges this afternoon as I think it's confusing. I think your two pictures of the college are both of New Oscott, built 1837 at the junction of Chester Road and College Road and I think it's still there today.

This picture is of Old Oscott, (dedicated to St. Mary, so it became St Mary's College in 1808). It was somewhere near the lower part of Old Oscott Hill. There was a large pond nearby called "Obys Pewl" named after Obadiah Moore who died at the farm cottage at the end of the hill where the college was and was above the pool. It was also known as "Commin Pewl" (Common Pool). The pool often froze over and was used for skating in winter and swimming in the summer by those at the college. Viv.

 

[Dave M]

Hi lyn been trying to find out some more about the burial ground, but not come up with anything yet. Also been looking into the colleges this afternoon as I think it's confusing. I think your two pictures of the college are both of New Oscott, built 1837 at the junction of Chester Road and College Road and I think it's still there today.


They are the same building, front and rear, the building can be seen from the Grave area off Hawthorn Brook Way

 

[Dave M]

Few pics from the area of the Grave`s

 

[Dave M]

Few more

 

[Dave M]

Last few

 

[Dave M]

The pics taken from the right hand corner of this part of the building

 

[Vivienne14]

What a great building Dave. New Oscott is certainly an impressive place. It was built in 1837 but looks older. Pugin had some influence in the building of the church attached to it too (your third photo post#915) - I think he lectured at either New or Old Oscott college. Here's an engraving of New Oscott. Viv.

 

[Astoness]

fantastic pics dave thanks for taking the time to post them for us...viv it is a lovely building isnt it and i never knew until now that it was still standing....worth a closer look me thinks...

 

[Vivienne14]

Definitely Lyn. I'm finding the history of these two colleges really interesting. Old Oscott was on my doorstep when I lived there and I knew virtually nothing about it! Surprising how much history there is in a place if you look carefully. Be good to find out what happened to that burial ground by Our Lady of the Assumption Church too. Viv.

 

[TOPSYTURVEY]

Papers relating to the Oscott Cemetery are still at Oscott where they are in current or semi-current use; this sub-section has been added to allow for later deposits.

Until the 1940s burials at Oscott took place in burial grounds near the chapel and in a small piece of woodland. In 1937 the Trustees began negotiations with Birmingham Council to develop part of College Farm as a cemetery, thus providing a burial place for Catholics and a permanent open space for the College; for further details, see OCA/1/1/4/2, OCA/2/9/19/1/9 and P37/0 .

The proposal was approved in 1938. See P37/0/A for details of the (mostly) unidentified human remains that were exhumed from the former burial ground attached to the demolished Church of St Peter, Broad Street, Birmingham, [in use between 1786 and 1873] and reburied at Oscott in 1986

 

[Dave M]

I was lucky once, had access to the main building a few years ago, to enquire about Commonwealth war Graves, outside the perimeter fence, as a volunteer for the Commonwealth War Grave Project, very helpful, I only entered a small part of the main building. no pics.


https://twgpp.org/

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks Topsy. This must be referring to New Oscott College. Looking at Google, there's a College Farm Drive nearby, so assume College Farm was somewhere there, close to the college and trees. You can see the burial grounds at the bottom of the photo.

The burial ground on Lyn's map showing Old Oscott still remains a mystery then.

David, how interesting. Can people visit New Oscott or is it closed to the general public? Viv.

 

[TOPSYTURVEY]

yes vivienne quite a mystery.