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Old fashioned family ethics...

Mayfield

Mayfield

Burbury Brummie
For those that are not aware, I was originally one of eleven children (eight surviving), and was brought up by a hard working father and a mother that firmly believed in old fashioned family ethics and principles.

As it was in many of the households of this era, the responsibility of the father was to go out to work and provide a living for his family; whereas the onus of the mother's duties related to looking after the house and family... With this in mind, you would therefore assume that the social ethos of the family structure would invoke a matriarchal system? Well to some degree this was correct but, the system also required that the dominant matriarch honoured her male counterpart with the respect of a pseudo-head... in other words my father thought himself the head? My mother (as others did) ruled by femine guile - how often did she use her charms to convince my patriarchal father that her way was really his idea... Everone had the place in life - a 'pecking order'. For this old fashioned family structure to work it insisted on a respect of status and authority, and this was strictly marshalled by both parents.

Now, this structed transcended to the children of the family... the girls and boys also had social differential status. Within my family; my sisters (as they approached adolescense) helped my mother around the house after school making the beds, washing, ironing, cleaning, etc, wheareas my brothers and I had part time jobs delivering papers or working as errand boys in the Jewellery Quarter (giving our mother a percentage of our wages). This system would not now be embraced as it necessitated that the girls of the household respected the elevated status of their sibling brothers by waiting on them (as my mother did for her husband)? I vividly remember my mother disciplining my sisters on several occasions for not responding to requests from their brothers for cups of tea and ironed shirts... This wasn't seen at that time as cruel or inappropriate; it was an expected and accepted way of life?

My parents were loving, caring yet strict - they both insisted that their children were respectful, polite and embraced the understanding that everyone, and everything had a place in life.

Did this old fashioned family structure make me an egotistical male chauvinistic pig - no I don't think so... Could it have done, I really don't think so - what is your opinion?

keith
 
Whist I uphold and agree with what you say and, to some lesser extent lived it (we were all boys)...........I can't help but feel that someone will say................."There was a time when women were treated as 2nd class citizens and wern't allowed to vote etc..........were they the good old days?..........and even further back we would clout 'em over the head with clubs"............but I certainly agree that respect seems to have gone the way of the dodo.
 
I was brought much the same as you Krith with strict parents -We were taught to be respectful mind our manners etc.

In the marriage vow women 'honour and obey' their husbands - This was changed in 1908 to 'cherish' though many people still decided to use the old vow which my mom did. .

Anyhow, women subservient to man doesn't go down with me very well - So I say a Woman is the 'Heart' of the family equally as important as the head. . .
 
'Girls of the household respected the elevated status of their sibling brothers.'
Glad I wasn't brought up in your household Keith.

Ann
 
Old fashioned households were an off shoot from Victorian times which was the way some of our parents grew up and so was just handed down 'Spare the 'Spare rod and spoil the child' mentallity in schools.

However, strict families did have their good points - compared to many families today all they seem to want to do is their own thing - and not finding time to be a real family.
 
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Interesting discussion taking place...

Victorian values??? But this was the norm within the inner city area where I was brought-up during the 50's and 60's? As such modern values surely???

keith
 
In these modern times the family lifestyle has to fit the circumstances of change.I spent a working lifetime retailing thousands of metres of pretty
fabrics to thousands of ladies who related numerous personal stories about
their social cicumstances. I definitely found that the the HAPPIEST majority
spent there time at home with the nest preparing for their Mr Right to return
home Link up soon WAK
 
In the time of Victorian England, women were often treated unjustly compared to the standards of today. They became victims because society treated them differently than they did men. Victorian society used the concept of purity, a theory of adultery and divorce, and feminine sexuality to trap women. It was important that a woman be ‘Pure’
In Victorian Society, there were two types of women: Fallen women and Good women. Good women were women who were usually virgins upon marriage. They were married or going to be married, had very little education, were trained in domestic affairs (sewing, cooking, housekeeping, etc.) and they had little or no voice over what was asked of them to do. These women were looked upon as pure and innocent, like children. They would fall into the care of their husbands and would not try to do anything independently or not of their husbands’ will.
Such was life then - My life growing up was an offshoot of those times somewhere in the middle of then and now
Women have come along way since the Victorian era - Striving for equality all over the world have taken this fight to new heights, and rightfully so, equality of rights should never be denied anybody. . .
 
I agree Keith that your description of upbringing of children following WW2
was certainly the norm for many people. The culture in society at that time regarding both sexes of children in a family was first and foremost to
teach them respect, if the family followed religion in any way then "Honour thy Father and Mother" would be quoted from the Ten Commandments along with the other Commandments. Parents wanted their children to "fit" in society and it was extremely important to "know the rules" as it were.

Regarding the male/female children and their work in the house. I only have my own experience to relate. I was the middle child of three children, the others two boys, one older by 7 years than my youngest brother. My Mother took l2 years off working as a Secretary to raise her children. After that she worked four days a week from 10 until 2pm and eventually went to work full time when my youngest brother could stay at school all day.
I would say that being a girl I had the lions share of the housework and
that included cleaning and tidying my brother's rooms, ironing their clothes,
I would also cook sometimes especially after taking Domestic Science classes. My Mother, a great cook, would do most of the cooking.

My youngest brother got away with not doing much. He played amateur sports at school and escaped doing any chores mostly. My oldest brother had to get in the coal, go to the butchers at the weekend and do a paper round both morning and night and also travel to Five Ways from Stockland Green to attend school in later years.

I used to start cleaning the house the moment Mom left for work when I
was on holidays. Cleaning out the ashes in the sitting room and laying the fire for later. I would Cardinal the front entry way where the meter boxes
were and polish the furniture in all rooms once a week, then start on the ironing. God, those awful starched shirts! Everything I learned has stayed with me and although I am not a neat freak I don't mind
cleaning and looking after my husband. As far as I remember we all ate
the same food although I have heard stories about the husband, being the bread winner, getting better food than the rest of the family in the
late l940's and early l950's.


As we have mentioned before at all levels there were eyes watching you
from the moment you left the house until you came back again. Neighbours
who would catch your Mom for a chat would gladly relay any wrongdoings
or perceived wrongdoings done by anyone of us in the neighbourhood. We also know about the teachers sending notes home and then getting heck for whatever it was we had done. Mainly, there were consequences for just about all of our actions as kids which fell in the deficit column. This taught most of us the way to live our lives. These days there doesn't seem to be any consequences for children's actions.

Not every family had perfect kids by any means. I remember visiting a
friend of my Mom's and her son got up on the sideboard and walked all around the room on the furniture. He was seven or eight at the time. Not a word from his Mom. I remember he was very proud of this. We just sat there horrified!.
 
There is never any reason or excuse for a man to behave dominant. During the war, women worked outside the home, and that continued after the war. I grew up in the 50's, and my dad encouraged myself and my brother to do well. How could the women 'stay at home' when their wages were needed as much as their husbands. If both partners can be interchangeable that has to be for the best. I don't think they have got it so wrong these days. When both partners are working and either can cook dinner, what's wrong with that?

Ann
 
My Grandad never took the role of head ever in the household, both he and my Nan worked to provide for my mom and her siblings, from the 40's and until the day he died he never ever made a decision about anything without consulting my Nan, my mom and her brothers all did the chores, not because they had to, but because they wanted to as they saw their parents working hard, when my Grandad could no longer work due to ill health he stayed at home whilst Nan worked, she'd come home to a cooked meal every night, so i think it depends on the Family, all the women in my family have been treated as equals thankfully :)
 
The initial meaning behind this discussion was that respect and its links with the structure of a family. It was never meant to be an equality issue if this is how it has be interpreted then I apologise? I stand firm in the belief of equality and diversity for all.

My mother was a strong individual who was a match for any man both mentally and physically, however her up-bringing (as with many in those days) neccessitated a role for women which she fulfilled to the best of her ability. My mother was not work shy, on the contrary, I challenge any individual (man or woman) to successfully tend, nurture and love the eight living children while upholding a job of work? Impossible, therefore my father worked seven days a week (two jobs) to provide for his family.

I admire the ardour, steadfastness and tenacity of my father in providing for and acting as a positive role model for a very large family (in todays terms), and the greatest respect and love for my mother who tended and looked after her childrens every needs without faulter. Both of whom passed away at the age of 51. It is my mother, and the likes of her in those bye gone years that prove the strength of mothers and women in general, and strenuously proved (not expected) that they were equal to men.

If the psychological theories apply that the grown-up child is the outcome of the way/manner in which they were brought-up, then my parents, and yours, truely succeeded...

Will the same apply in the future? I hope so...

keith
 
In todays world I am a bit of an 'oddity'.

I was well educated but never had any idea of what career to follow.
I worked in the accounts dept.of a solicitors office and then the accounts dept.of a Electro plating factory.

I married at 19 and had my first child at 21.
My husband earned good money and as neither my mother or mother in law was willing to care for my son I never returned to work.The nursery places in those days were more for mothers who had to work to make ends meet and I did not fall into that catagory.

By the time my first went to school I had given birth to my second son, and when he was 7, I had my third.
I could have returned to work when the youngest was a bit older but by then I was very happy where I was and so were my husband and boys..

We were lucky that I was financially able to stay at home and although many people find it hard to believe I have loved every minute of it.
My children were lucky enough to have a Mom who was always there for them but this has a downside.
My daughter in law reminded me the other day that the reason my youngest can do 'b****r all' in the house is because I did it all for him.
I hold my hands up BUT it's mothers and their little boys isn't it and it always has been..
 
Alberta said:
In todays world I am a bit of an 'oddity'.

I was well educated but never had any idea of what career to follow.
I worked in the accounts dept.of a solicitors office and then the accounts dept.of a Electro plating factory.

I married at 19 and had my first child at 21.
My husband earned good money and as neither my mother or mother in law was willing to care for my son I never returned to work.The nursery places in those days were more for mothers who had to work to make ends meet and I did not fall into that catagory.

By the time my first went to school I had given birth to my second son, and when he was 7, I had my third.
I could have returned to work when the youngest was a bit older but by then I was very happy where I was and so were my husband and boys..

We were lucky that I was financially able to stay at home and although many people find it hard to believe I have loved every minute of it.
My children were lucky enough to have a Mom who was always there for them but this has a downside.
My daughter in law reminded me the other day that the reason my youngest can do 'b****r all' in the house is because I did it all for him.
I hold my hands up BUT it's mothers and their little boys isn't it and it always has been..
Click to expand...

Alberta - is this an idividual trait, or is it the case with each of your sons?

keith
 
No Keith,none of them is very domesticated.

Until they left home they had never lifted an iron and I hold my hands up.my fault .If had my time again it would be different,or would it,you see i was brought up in the same environment.

My Dad and his Dad before him were coal miners and worked very hard and expected to waited on and were.
My Dad later became a policeman and having a wife that worked was frowned upon by his superiors ,my Mom managed to get a part time job but her mother lived with us so the circle continued.My sister and I were taught to cook,knit,sew etc by our grandmother.I had no brothers so I do not know how they would have been treated but I can guess because my grandparents thought that men worked and brought home the brass and that was all they needed to do and women did the rest.

I guess a little of it rubbed off on me but I am not complaining because I have always known that women can do everything better than men, LOL.
 
A little off topic but along the same lines.

25 years ago my eldest son became a Nurse.I was in the hairdressers chatting about family and said that my eldest was a nurse and someone said 'I didn't know you had a daughter'.

I left school(Erdington Grammar) in 1958 and just before we left one of the senior mistresses was having a chat with us and asking what we were going to do when we left.
My friend was the youngest in the family she had 3 brothers and she said she was going to be a Mechanic to which the teacher replied'Don't be silly'.
 
Alberta - thank you for that. It is a changing world, like it or not... My worry is the loss of the true family structure, a thing called the extended family?

keith
 
Keith,my idea of an extended family would be children ,parents grandparents,Uncles and Aunts.

I think we have to accept that it is now somewhat a thing of the past.

If a young couple divorce and remarry(or live together and split up) and have children it can create a very extended family,especially as this sometimes happens for a second time
and more children are born.

What a puzzle of Grandparents,Uncles and Aunts this could create.

What a very large dining table you would need and I believe that is the secret of a solid, happy family,Everyone eating around the dining table.
 
Keith I was brought up with these values, too and brought my own family up the same in the 60s-90s. We were happy, the boys were happy and they now have respect themselves and responsible jobs. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion, anyway. The lads married and they and their wives respect each other and help each other, the girls mainly looking after the kids. It works. What's wrong with it, I say?

Harborne
 
harborne said:
Keith I was brought up with these values, too and brought my own family up the same in the 60s-90s. We were happy, the boys were happy and they now have respect themselves and responsible jobs. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion, anyway. The lads married and they and their wives respect each other and help each other, the girls mainly looking after the kids. It works. What's wrong with it, I say?

Harborne
Click to expand...

What a happy sentiment, exactly, what is wrong with it? Absolutely nothing... Thank you Harborne and Alberta for making me smile again with hope.

keith
 
The best and HAPPIEST equally balanced UNIONS OF MARRIAGE are found
where decisions are made together without someone 'wearing the trousers'
Total CONTROL from one party or the other takes the spirit and delightful
mystique away from each other and can be LOST forever Link up soon WAK
 
The trouble is, Mayfield, we only hear about the bad 'uns, nothing much is ever said about the good people do. A scruffy teenager gave up his seat on the bus the other day for my aged mother.


Harborne
 
harborne said:
The trouble is, Mayfield, we only hear about the bad 'uns, nothing much is ever said about the good people do. A scruffy teenager gave up his seat on the bus the other day for my aged mother.


Harborne
Click to expand...

I agree totally Harborne. Appearance has never made the person - respect and politeness has no social barrier... It is the cultured result of a caring family structure.

Mayfield
 
hi KIETH interesting post my DAD (brass caster)worked long hrs,MOM worked part time around school hrs very much like MOMS today we always had our meals AT the table ,not always together because of DADS irregular hrs ,but always on SAT/SUNDAYS and my two lads were brought up the same . it was easy when they were young ,harder in the teenage yrs .even long faces when i lay ed the law down be cause they wanted to watch the telly.Alas both my sons family's are laptop eaters I just wonder how many families on the FORUM have all their meals at the table?
My DAD used to catch up with what had we done at school that week and general family chat and pow -wow (he called it) cheers
33bus
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TOM
 
I was like a mother to my brothers, as I grew to my late teens and early twenties I really resented my male siblings. The whole family, including my ma, worked in factories yet it was me and my ma who did all the housework, shopping and ironing. My lazy brothers used to laugh and take the mickey, I hated them for it. Even going out was a problem, I had to be at 10-30pm, they strolled in the next day without a sword said to them!!! Since they have been married they do most things in the house for their wives, ha! ha! serves them right.
 
Hi Carol, Most men (with sense) Know there are NINE ways to skin a cat! Link up soon WAK
 
Most men with any sense know that women have the trick card but it cannot be divulged on here! Link up soon WAK
 
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