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Old Contemptibles

theodore

master brummie
I'm researching the men of the 2nd Battalion Worcestershire Regiment from August to November 1914. I would like to hear from any member who had a relative or who has any information on men from Birmingham (or the surrounding area) who served with the Battalion during this period. These men would be known as the Old Contemptibles after the Kaiser's famous remark about General French's contemptible little army.

Regards

Peter
 
theodore, Post a message on the Worcestershire Regiment website and ask for info. Len.
 
Hi Len,

Thanks for your reply, I have already been in contact with them. This is a new site for me and I thought I may get some new information about the Birmingham men serving with the Battalion. Birmingham was a major recruiting area for the Worcestershire Regiment. So far not a lot of replies, maybe not many members had a relative in the Worcesters 2nd Battalion.

Regards

Peter
 
Hi theodore, Your thread re Old Contemptibles covers all the British Army in WW1, you may get more replies if you ask for "2nd Batt Worcestershire Soldiers relatives memories" in a thread or how you would like to word it. Len
 
Hello Peter
My husbands grandad.. Reuben Woodward was in the 2nd Battalion Worcershire Regiment, on his medal card the date of entry was 12/8/1914. there is a photo taken of him down the trenches with others in his regiment, this photo was on the bill boards around the parks when there was an exhibition on ww1 at the Birmingham Museum in the 80's and also featured in the Birmingham Mail Dec 5th 1881. the same photo was on the front cover of a book called ''The Old Contemptibles'' published in the 80's, I hope this is of interest to you.

Regards Pat
 
Hi Len and Pat,

Thank you both for the information.

Pat,
I have 7231 Pte. Reuben Woodward on my database, as you say he went to France on 12th August 1914. He was discharged from the army on 10th April 1916. Reported in the Birmingham Daily Post Tuesday January 5th 1915 page 3 to be wounded, reported from base under date November 26th 1914. If you are unaware Reuben is on a list in Worcester Cathedral along with all the names of men of the 2nd Battalion Worcesters who went to France in August 1914. (a list for the 3rd Battalion is also there).
If you can supply me with any further information about Reuben, date of birth, when he enlisted in the army etc. It would be most appreciated. If you have a photograph of him that would also be very welcome. I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Peter
 
Hello Peter,
The Reuben Woodward in my tree was Pte 7382 ? according to the National Roll of the Great War, he was mobilised from the reserve in Aug 1914 and sent to France, there he fought at Mons, The Aisme,Ypress,Neuve Chapelle,La Brass, Loos, Festubert and The Somme, and was wounded 5 times and gassed. in 1920 he was serving in he R.A.F. and holds the Mon's Star,the General Service and the Victory medals.
He was born 29/11/1884 and died Jan/1947. I do have a copy of the photo down the trenches.. but has yet I haven't mastered how to send photo's to this site.
Regards Pat
 
Hi Pat,

Sorry my mistake Reubens number was 7382 (I put part of the number from the chum under Rueben). Thank you for the additional information, it's just what I'm after for the database I'm working on. To date I have 1666 names and any new data is very welcome. If you can scan your photograph in you could send it direct to my email.
Thanks again.
Best regards

Peter
 
Hi I'm not sure if my great uncle was in the regiment you are looking for but I'll give you the info I have - He was Frederick James Bray enlisted in Worcester Hussars (Worcestershire yeomanry) - his regiment was the Household Cavalry which included the Yeomanry and the Imperial Camel Corps. He was killed on the 23rd April 1916 age 23 in Palestine/Egypt. I have his service number if you want it.
Sheri
 
Hi Sheri,

Thank you for your posting but your great uncle was not in the 2nd Battalion Worcesters and is not on my database. His Regimental No. was 325578 if I have the correct Frederick James Bray.

Regards

Peter
 
Hi Theodore, I didn't think gt.uncle Fred. was in the battalion you were looking at - posted just in case as 'm not sure whats what!! And I've got as much info that I could find.
Sheri
 
Hi Theodore,
Just come across this thread. My mom's uncle was Joseph Hanks and served in the 2nd Worcester regiment. He was born in Dodford ,Worcester in 1882 and moved to Birmingham in abt 1886. He married in 1911 . On the CWGC It states he also fought in South africa. he died on the 21st Oct 1914. and is commemorated on the wall at the Menim gate. We have just come back from a visit to Belgium and France visiting various battle sites including Gheluvelt where we found a memorial to the 2nd Worcesters. Any other information about him would be most appreciated.
Regards John
 
Hi John,

The following is all I have on Pte. 7626 Joseph Hanks at present:

Private Hanks was born 1882 in Bromsgrove and enlisted in Worcester. A member of 'D' company he was killed in action aged 31 at the battle of Langemark and is remembered on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial. Served in the South African Campaign. Son of Joseph and Cathrine Hanks, of 7 Court, 3 House, New Summer St., Birmingham; husband of the late Margaret Hanks.

The 1891 census shows he was one of five children living with their parents at 9 Hunters Vale, in the Parish of Aston

He was entitled to the 1914 Star, British War and Victory Medals, however his MIC states his medals were returned in 1922.

His service number would indicate he enlisted sometime around 1903.

The following is an extract from 'The Worcestershire Regiment in the Great War' by Capt. H. FitzM. Stacke for the day Joseph was killed:

The 2nd Worcestershire advanced at 0500 hours in an easterly direction towards Wallemglem, with the 4th Guards Brigade on their right and the 1st Division on their left. They moved forward from the Pilckem ridge to the crossroad's north of St. Julien where a long halt was made while the 1st Division came up into line on the left. British cavalry reported that the enemy were close in front and intermittent firing could be heard, but trees and hedgerows obscured the view. By 0930 hours all were ready to resume the advance, but the delay of three hours had enabled the enemy's advanced troops to push forward almost up to the position of the halted Brigade.
The leading platoons of the Worcestershire had advanced only a few hundred yards when their movement was checked by sharp bursts of fire from a strong force of Germans in the hedges in front. A confused fight followed, with much firing and many rushes of small bodies of troops from hedge to hedge. In the hand to hand fighting Lt. Haskett-Smith was knocked over and captured. The closeness of the fighting prevented the enemy sending him back, and he was kept in their forward trenches. After it became dark he succeeded in escaping. Reinforcements were hurried up by both sides, and rapid firing became general all along the line. Many men were hit, the advance became more and more difficult, and the platoons were forced to dig cover with their entrenching tools. Away to the left the advance of the 1st Division had similarly held up around Langemarck.
Fighting lasted all day, both sides endeavouring to gain ground. The platoons in the front-line suffering severely. Capt. Nolan R.A.M.C. was killed, and Lieutenant Curtler shot dead while directing the fire of his platoon. Sergeant D.M. Owins took over command and, although wounded soon afterwards, continued the fight most gallantly throughout the day. He was awarded the DCM for this action.
By nightfall all four companies of the 2nd Worcestershire had been drawn into the firing line, which was extended among the hedgerows about a mile north east of St. Julien. Picks and shovels were brought up after dark, and the troops set to work to make their positions more secure. Throughout the night they laboured hard entrenching the position. Firing continued at intervals, and the work was interrupted by several minor attacks, which were all beaten off. The fighting had been heavy during the whole day and night.


I visited Gheluvelt (Ypres and surrounding area) myself earlier this year.

Sorry I can't give you any more details but if you can add anything to the above I would appreciate it.

Do you have a photograph of Joseph in uniform?

Regards

Peter
 
View attachment 70511I have added the Boar War record for Joseph hanks that I could not add to your private message. thanks again for the extract from the Worcestershire Regiment. I had presumed he had died leading up tothe battle of Gheluvelt.
Regards John.
 
Hi John,

Thank you for the additional info you have supplied and good luck with your future researching.

Not sure Pte. 6021 J. Hanks is your man.

1911 census he could still be a serving soldier the reason he is not on census with his wife.

Have you tried this site?

www.worcestershireregiment.com

If I find anything new on Joseph will post on this forum for you.

Regards

Peter
 
Hello Peter.
Thank you very much for all your help. It has certainly given me a lot more information on joseph to be getting on with.
Regards John
 
John

Joseph Hanks is remembered in the "Roll of Honour of Birmingham Men And Woman Who Gave Their Lives In The Great War 1914-1918"he will therefore be remembered in the Birmingham Hall of Memory.

Regards

Tony
 
View attachment 70645
At a recent visit to the Menim gate Memorial I took this photograph. When you enlarge it I hope It might be of use to anyone who has family or friends on the wall from the Worcester regiment.

Regards John
 
I'm researching the men of the 2nd Battalion Worcestershire Regiment from August to November 1914.
Peter

Hi Peter,
I was wondering if you would be interested in my Grandfather who joined the 2nd Bat. Worcester’s on 17th February 1908 and was discharged on the 30th August 1914.
He was Private Albert Edward Bird, number 11042, from Hockley, Birmingham. I have his service record from start to finish.
He had a knee injury while serving in India in 1912 and they eventually had to operate on it in February 1914. He was pensioned out as “no longer fit for War service”. He later transferred to 5th Bat. Just before his discharge.
He was awarded the Silver War Badge to show he had served and done his bit.
Cheers
Phil
 
Hi Phil,

Your Grandfather (Albert) is not on my database for 1914 Star (2nd Battalion) men. I have looked up his service papers on Ancestry and also for his MIC to make sure I had not missed Albert from my research and the reason he is not included is the fact he was discharged in August 1914 and did not go to France with the Battalion. All the men I am researching are 14 Star men and this amounts to just over 1600 men all told. To research all 2nd Battalion men would be just a little too much for me to undertake but it was interesting to read his service record.

Regards

Peter
 
Thanks Peter,

Just out of interest, if my Grandfather had been allowed to stay with the 2nd Bat. can you tell me what would the first engagement have been?
I'm just woundering what the odds would have been for him to have survived if he had gone to France and therefore do I owe my existence to him have a knee injury?

Phil
 
Hi Phil,

I often wonder myself if I would be here today had it not been for the good fortune of a German bullet. My own Grandfather was wounded at Gheluvelt and discharged no longer fit for war service in 1915.

My research regarding men of the 2nd Worcesters to date shows that of the 1656 (2nd Battalion) men entitled to the 1914 Star 496 died (KiA, DoW or died) between the dates 9th September (first man to die) and 5th February 1921. Wounded noted to date for 1914-18, 692. The wounded list will be higher but researching wounded lists in various newspapers takes a good amount of time and effort.

The first loss to the Battalion was the horse of the Adjutant, Lieut. B.C. Senhouse Clarke and th following extract from Stacke for the 24th August 1914 will explain:

Frameries proved to be an ugly mining village with slag heaps and tangled streets. The ground north of it was an open slope. There the 2nd Worcestershire deployed, while the two light infantry battalions went on further to complete the line from Frameries to Paterages. The defensive line selected for the 2nd Worcestershire ran across a wide stubble field facing north with all four Companies in the firing line, finding their own supports. All ranks of the Battalion were already tired out, but all worked hard at the entrenchment of the new position, and with great effort the necessary cover was completed just before the dawn.
At the first light the enemy renewed their attack. The German guns opened fire on our trenches and the surrounding buildings at 0300 hours. Shrapnel was now bursting all along the British line. The bombardment continued until 0800 hours. One of the first shells killed the horse of the Adjutant, Lieut. B. C. Senhouse Clarke*. This was the first loss in the Battalion. Presently small bodies of the German infantry were seen advancing among the slag heaps and cottages of Flenu and Cuesmes. The enemy did not come on very fast. On the previous day they had advanced boldly and had suffered severely from the British musketry. They had learnt caution and they now advanced with circumspection towards the positions of the British battalions. These latter held their ground, opening fire at intervals when suitable targets were offered.
The enemy’s shellfire caused several casualties among the 2nd Worcestershire (5 men wounded, 21 missing). One severely wounded man was carried into safety by Company Sergeant Major A. Mayston who was awarded the D.C.M. for this deed. Another was rescued by two unknown stretcher bearers of the Battalion, who came up to the bombarded trenches from the houses in the rear across the open, winning general admiration for their contempt of danger. The bombardment became even more severe, but the enemy’s infantry remained at a respectful distance, and no serious attack had yet developed when, at 0800 hours came orders to retire. Messages were sent forward to the trenches that the companies were to retire in succession through Frameries village and were to form up south of the houses. In accordance with those orders the companies left their trenches and fell back through Frameries.
As the troops fell back, the wretched inhabitants of the village poured out of their houses in a terror stricken mob. In the streets all order was lost. Runaway horses and shrieking, sobbing women broke up the ranks of the platoons, while the houses around collapsed under the German shells. But the Worcestershire lads kept their heads.
Orders were shouted to reform on the road beyond the village, and officers and men made their way as best they could through the stampede. On the road south of the village the companies were halted and reassembled. As if on peace training the platoons closed up into column of fours and stood at ease. Rolls were called and every man was accounted for. The troops were cool and steady in spite of the shells bursting among the houses close behind. When all was ready the Battalion sloped arms and marched off down the road.
An officer who saw much fighting afterwards said “exactly as if marching back to barracks at Aldershot. I have always considered that this reassembling of the Battalion after the utter disorder in the streets of Frameries was the finest possible example of the discipline of the 'Old Army’.”The Battalion marched back about a mile and took up a defensive position north of the woods south of Eugies to cover further retirement. The 2nd Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire L.I. took up position on the left of the 2nd Worcestershire, and presently the 1st Lincolnshire fell back into line on the right flank. The three battalions of the 5th Brigade reassembled at Eugies where they remained until about 1630 hours, when orders came to rejoin the 2nd Division. The Brigade moved off and after a tiring but uneventful march, reached Bavai about 2200 hours where the 2nd Connaught Rangers rejoined the Brigade. The 2nd Worcestershire bivouacked for the night in an open field, cheered by a hot meal and welcome mail from home.

The first 2nd Battalion soldier to be killed was Private 11365 George Shannon who died as a result of his wounds on 9th September 1914. The following extract again from Stacke is the action the Battalion were involved in when Private Shannon was wounded:

At 0900 hours the Battalion was ordered to advance and came into action under slight shell and rifle fire to Le Gravier on the left of the Guards Brigade. “A” company crossed the bridge at that place and took 23 German prisoners at the farm. The banks of the Petit Morin were steep and thickly wooded. “A” & “B” Companies of the Battalion found covered positions on the wooded slopes and engaged the hostile machine guns, while “C” & “D” Companies moved further to the left to effect a crossing. "C" Company found a sheltered bend in the river and waded across to the northern bank, and “D” Company made a similar crossing further to the left. The two companies pushed up the slope through the woods, and before their attack the German defenders gave way. The German casualties were heavy, our guns doing good work. The enemy were dismounted cavalry scattered in small parties along the heights. Several of these detachments were rounded up and killed or captured. “C” & “D” Companies between them secured 23 prisoners. The enemy evacuated Sablonnieres and fell back through the wooded country to the line of the River Marne. In the woods scattered fighting continued during most of the afternoon, it was dark when the 2nd Worcestershire and the bulk of the 5th Brigade bivouacked for the night at La Petite Basseville. Casualties were 12 wounded and 18 missing.

Hope this is of some help.

Regards

Peter

P.S. I noticed on your list of name searches you have Sandford on your list, I have Sanford on my family tree (Great Gran).
 
Thanks again Peter,

Very interesting, not that I believe in fate but it makes you think, doesn't it?

By the way, the Sanford name belonged to my Grandmother.

Regards
Phil
 
Hi John

Many thanks for the photograph of Joseph. Still working on the database and any new info (photos etc) is always very much appreciated.

Regards

Peter
 
can anyone help
i have just found out that my gggreat uncle died of his wounds 29sept 1915 in france it states that he died at
number 20 general hospital what i am trying to find out would that be a field hospital or a city hostpital he was in the 2nd bat worcestershire reg i would like to see if there would be a death cert for him that i might be able to apply for i would be gratful for any help given
thank you josie
 
Hi Josie

Your GGGreat Uncle is a 1915 Star man so not on my database (14 Star men only). From his medal indesx card I see he was entitled to the 1915 Star and the British War and Victory Medals. He went to France on 27th March 1915. No service records for Albert found on Ancestry so they must have been destroyed (in 1940 the place holding the service records was bombed and many were lost or badly fire and water damaged). I found reference to a 20 General Hospital at Camiers (from May 1915 to April 1919).
You can find the details on the web at The Long, Long Trail (Google this). It gives a lot of info on Hospitals etc.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Peter
 
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