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No 12 BUS ROUTE

Lloyd

master brummie
Not a conclusive proof I know, but here's preserved Birmingham 1937 Daimler CVP 207 fitted at the time with an early post-war Harborne garge blind, and displaying short working 12E, Harborne & California. (i.e. only ran to those two points).
 

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BernardR

Guest
I should've said I am not doubting for one minute what the blind should show; rather that I cannot see read it as such in this instance.
 

tardebigge

BCT Fan
I have to agree with Oakworth, despite the lack of finer detail. No way it is California or Harborne. Interesting the bus is 2479 which originally was part of the Miller St group brought in to replace the trams in 1953, moved to Harborne after the intros of the BON C/FOC D series to Miller St. Maybe 2479 has a very old blind from much earlier days.
After further consideration I may be wrong as to stating this was a Miller St transferee. I didn't look at the picture closely enough, failed to notice that actually there does not appear to be a sign of a new style indicator. Perhaps the picture is around the time this Crossley batch came in and 2479 was originally at Harborne. Interesting enough both Oakworth and Harborne consist of 8 letters, where California has 10.
 
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Simon4130

master brummie
The problem is that while it looks like Oakworth there in nowhere in Birmingham of that name or even close to it and I can't find any reference that there ever was. I haven't tried to sharpen the image but the way the letters are blurred into one another it could quite easily be California as we would expect to find on a no. 12.
 
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Elizabeth Redmond

Guest
Forgive me for joining in, but it definitely says Oakworth, I know it shouldn't I lived in Harborne and often caught the number 12, perhaps the driver just made a mistake, I've seen that happen before.:smug:
 

DrDaveHPP

New Member
I haven't tried to sharpen the image but the way the letters are blurred into one another it could quite easily be California as we would expect to find on a no. 12.
It does look like Oakworth to me, and like others I've never heard of anywhere by that name on the 12 route. (My Nan used to live in California.) But the blurring makes me wonder whether the letters have been added in afterwards somehow by the film processor as a way of signing his work!
 

roly

master brummie
The camera doesn't lie. Indeed it looks very much like "Oakworth" to me. The only explaination I can think of is:-
In 1957 Harborne garage had all of its blinds reprinted for the Weoley Castle ( 20A/B/D etc.)and Ivy bush to King's Heath route revisions( 2B/26).. The blind in the photograph was produced by a company called "Norco" (or T. Norbury and co. ltd.) Although this firm were a world leader in making public transport indicators, they did make mistakes. I have looked through my collection of bus blinds and photographic listings and I can't find Oakworth on any of them. I can only assume that this was a printers error and the blind was fitted to the vehicle before it was sent back to the manufacturers for ammendment
 

paul stacey

master brummie
The enhanced photo dos indeed say "Oakworth" but how or why is a complete mystery to me, have to agree with #29.
paul
 

jennyann

Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
Staff member
Perhaps Michael Keeley who wrote the book about Birmingham Bus Routes might know about the No. 12 destination blind. I found this on another
transport thread on the Forum.
[h=2]Re: Birmingham Buses Route by Route 1925-1975[/h]
I used to work for West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive at Summer Lane as well as Malcolm Keeley that wrote this book!

Malcolm can be contacted via the Birmingham Bus Museum at Wythall.

https://www.bammot.org.uk/
 

Radiorails

master brummie
This issue does not seem to have been solved!
Reference to the book mentioned in post 32 suggests that the blind is a little to high in the destination box and actually, whilst it does appear to read Oakworth, it is in fact Harborne. (same number of letters)
Some buses just used the wording Harborne or Bartley Green, but others went to California. Pictures shows the early post war style BCT buses, passing Chamberlain's statue in June 1962 with a blind stating: Harborne and Bartley Green 12. The other picture, October 1957 shows a bus in Harborne Road with a blind saying Harborne and California 12D.
 

Bob Davis

Bob Davis
This issue does not seem to have been solved!
Reference to the book mentioned in post 32 suggests that the blind is a little to high in the destination box and actually, whilst it does appear to read Oakworth, it is in fact Harborne. (same number of letters)
Some buses just used the wording Harborne or Bartley Green, but others went to California. Pictures shows the early post war style BCT buses, passing Chamberlain's statue in June 1962 with a blind stating: Harborne and Bartley Green 12. The other picture, October 1957 shows a bus in Harborne Road with a blind saying Harborne and California 12D.
Did anybody ever put the query to Malcolm Keeler. Yes (phil) it looks like Oakworth, but having read Radiorails and all my Birmingham Transport Books I have to agree with Post 34 and assume the blind has twisted slightly and it does say Harborne, although when you write Oakworth and then take out the top half of the letters and do the same with Harborne, the only glitch is the last letter all the others could be Harborn, but that last letter an h does not make an e (unless as they say someone knows better (and I am sure and I bow to the expertise I see on this forum, someone out there has the answer and thus does know better). Do the lower deck vents look peculiar to any one else? Or is it just light distortion? Strangely enough Google throws up Oakworth at No 7 Twatling Road Barnt Green.

Bob
 
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