Covroad
master brummie
Great Picture, I had forgotten about the footbridge remember going over it with my Dad.
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New Street Station From1854
- Thread starter Di.Poppitt
- Start date
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Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
“A view at the Euston end of Birmingham (New Street) station before the diesels came. A group of spotters and a curious little girl and her father gather on the platform near to Jubilee Class 4-6-0 No 45555 Quebec (3B Bushbury - Wolver-hampton) which is paired with a smaller capacity Fowler tender on 14th May 1957. Quebec is in charge of a Wolverhampton (High Level) to Euston express.” (G. H. Wilson)
British railways steaming on the London Midland Region. vol. 3 by Hands, Peter. (1990)
British railways steaming on the London Midland Region. vol. 3 by Hands, Peter. (1990)
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
“The view from the Queen's Hotel, 13th April 1960. A Park Royal dmu rests between duties in the LNWR side of the station. The Midland platforms are under the overall roof to the left, the rebuilt Navigation St. and Hill St. bridges can be seen to the right.
A Century of Railways around Birmingham (courtesy of Railtrack)
A Century of Railways around Birmingham (courtesy of Railtrack)
DavidGrain
master brummie
Presumable stacks of mailbags on the platform which will not be seen these days. From the bend in the platform this would be on the Midland side of the station, I would guess platform 12.
Heartland
master brummie
Mike Gee's post of December 6th shows the Grand Central Station, or New Street Station.
On Thursday 10th December 1857 a 3rd class train left after mid-day for Liverpool. The signalman at the South end of the tunnel gave the right of way, but then later allowed a pilot engine to go to what was then called Crescent Shed for coke and water. Because the tunnel was filled with smoke from the Liverpool train the pilot engine driver did not see the Liverpool train ahead, whose progress was slowed by the gradient up the tunnel.
The south end signalman should not have passed the pilot engine and the resulting collision led to damaged carriages and passenger injuries. It was the first accident in the tunnel which used an electric telegraph system to ensure protection however the practice adopted by the South End and North End signal men was found at fault as the cause of this accident. The other tunnel at the South End of New Street Station evidently had more safe practices.
On Thursday 10th December 1857 a 3rd class train left after mid-day for Liverpool. The signalman at the South end of the tunnel gave the right of way, but then later allowed a pilot engine to go to what was then called Crescent Shed for coke and water. Because the tunnel was filled with smoke from the Liverpool train the pilot engine driver did not see the Liverpool train ahead, whose progress was slowed by the gradient up the tunnel.
The south end signalman should not have passed the pilot engine and the resulting collision led to damaged carriages and passenger injuries. It was the first accident in the tunnel which used an electric telegraph system to ensure protection however the practice adopted by the South End and North End signal men was found at fault as the cause of this accident. The other tunnel at the South End of New Street Station evidently had more safe practices.
Lloyd
master brummie
The official report of the above accident is here: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BoT_BirminghamTunnel1857.pdf
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
Interesting to read the whole report and it must be noted that in the report Captain HW Tyler says...
"I do not desire, however, to attribute blame to either of these men, because I consider the system under which they were working to have been so faulty as to render it a matter of surprise that accidents of this nature have not previously
occurred."
Lloyd
master brummie
It does seem to have been a rather Heath-Robinson arrangement of operation!
Heartland
master brummie
I think Heath Robinson is not the correct term if this report is read throughout and does mention that the needle telegraph system was in use at the North and South Tunnels. The issue was with what happened in the North Tunnel. That form of signaling was considered an important innovation at the time.
I managed to trace Baptiste mentioned in the report. His name was Edward Baptiste and had been born in
Guernsey and is mentioned in the LNWR employment records as a police constable based at Edgbaston
I managed to trace Baptiste mentioned in the report. His name was Edward Baptiste and had been born in
Guernsey and is mentioned in the LNWR employment records as a police constable based at Edgbaston
DavidGrain
master brummie
The original Railway Police were the signallers. That is why signallers are always addressed as Bobby whatever their real names.
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
In conclusion HW Tyler sums up the causes combined to produce the accident, and the elements of danger that had been brought to light.
“The signalmen have been allowed to fall in to a system of telegraphing the trains through the tunnel which was peculiarly liable to lead to mistakes.”
He recommended a better system of telegraphing the trains, combining a seperate instrument for each line of rails, with constant, unmistakeable, and undisturbed indications, either of obstructions or the absence of them.
“The signalmen have been allowed to fall in to a system of telegraphing the trains through the tunnel which was peculiarly liable to lead to mistakes.”
He recommended a better system of telegraphing the trains, combining a seperate instrument for each line of rails, with constant, unmistakeable, and undisturbed indications, either of obstructions or the absence of them.
Heartland
master brummie
I did try to visualise the arrangements as they were at the time of the accident and the location of the two signalmen (police) huts. One was at the Station side at the south end of the tunnel and the other to the north was at the ticket platform.
By this date, the Shrewsbury and Birmingham Railway trains had ceased to run to New Street, but the South Staffordshire Railway trains did run through the North Tunnel. The London & North Western trains ran along the Stour Valley Railway as the South Staffordshire Railway trains also did. With the SSR trains the LNWR engine men were in charge, so there was a common factor in who drove the engines. The locomotive shed had a siding access north of the north portal but seemingly south of the ticket platform said to be 200 yards to the north of the north portal. So if reading this correctly, the pilot engine going for coke and water had a destination between the two signal cabins. This working arrangement seemingly led to the accident and the suggested improvements hopefully led to better working practices.
There were several needle telegraph instruments as well as a bell system. The working of the telegraph was made possible by voltaic batteries. The needle pointed to a written instruction on the instrument and there was one that said line clear or line blocked, others mentioned goods, engine, stour valley or the main line, and the LNWR instructions for the LNWR ticket platform were issued in July 1854
By this date, the Shrewsbury and Birmingham Railway trains had ceased to run to New Street, but the South Staffordshire Railway trains did run through the North Tunnel. The London & North Western trains ran along the Stour Valley Railway as the South Staffordshire Railway trains also did. With the SSR trains the LNWR engine men were in charge, so there was a common factor in who drove the engines. The locomotive shed had a siding access north of the north portal but seemingly south of the ticket platform said to be 200 yards to the north of the north portal. So if reading this correctly, the pilot engine going for coke and water had a destination between the two signal cabins. This working arrangement seemingly led to the accident and the suggested improvements hopefully led to better working practices.
There were several needle telegraph instruments as well as a bell system. The working of the telegraph was made possible by voltaic batteries. The needle pointed to a written instruction on the instrument and there was one that said line clear or line blocked, others mentioned goods, engine, stour valley or the main line, and the LNWR instructions for the LNWR ticket platform were issued in July 1854
Lloyd
master brummie
As I understand it, the engine shed is Monument Lane and the "ticket platform" (where I suppose ticket collectors would board and check tickets, [NewStreet being an 'open station' without barriers]) for a short while became Edgbaston Station. See http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m/monument_lane_1st/index.shtml
This is one of those stereo images. Looks like it was made for the American market. Are we looking at Queens Drive - with the horse and cart just in view ? Viv.
DavidGrain
master brummie
Yes that is Navigation Street on the other side of the station and the trams are in Hill Street heading out for the Bristol Road services
Richard Dye
master brummie
Great photo!
Just curious, did you think it was made for the American market?
Only because it has Chicago, Ilinois written on the right-hand side Richard. And it makes it clear it's a scene in Birmingham, England (Eng). But that might also be indicating who produced it of course. I think this image was part of a series. There's another one with US places named in the vertical captions on this "Where is this ?" thread: https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/where-is-this.56409/
Viv.
Viv.
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Richard Dye
master brummie
Ah! I missed that, thank you!
Lloyd
master brummie
Lines electrified, so 1968 or after.
Judging by the buses in early WMPTE livery especially the MCW Metrobus, it is late 1970s/early 1980s.
