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Nelson Tavern, Severn Street, Birmingham?

Jules65

master brummie
Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place but I was struggling to find the correct place for it :)
I have a George Bromage on the 1861 Census living at 16 Severn Street and his occupation is down as Publican and Builder. The family seem to have lived there for a number of years with George Bromage being a builder and his wife Frances continuing as a Beer Retailer until her death in 1879. Has anyone ever come across this pub? The only census where Nelson Tavern is mentioned is on the 1861 census, other census just seem to list the address as 16 Severn Street. I would love to find out more about this family.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
1868 Kelly's lists 16 Severn Street as "Frances Bromage beer retailer". It is not listed as "Nelson" in the public house list. The next Kelly's I have access to is 1883 and it still says beer retailer but a different name.

Janice
 

Jules65

master brummie
Thank you Janice - what does the term beer retailer mean - would it be like an "outdoor" rather than a pub? Strange that it was recorded as the Nelson Tavern on the 1861 census - maybe they had visions of grandeur lol
 

Jules65

master brummie
Ive just found reference to Nelson Tavern on the 1891 census, this time under the name of Emma Talkington, the daughter of Frances Bromage.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Census often does not list the name of a tavern. Indeed, on occasion it does not even mention that it is a tavern if the main occupation of the landlord is something else, which it often is. Sometimes it then lists his wife as working in a pub, without making it clear that the pub is at that address. Usually this is when it is a beerhouse, rather than a full licence. The pub was on the north side of Severn St between Suffolk St and Fordrough St, and I think was the building marked in green on the c 1890 map below. It would have disappeared sometime around 1900 when the railway yard was expanded
George is listed in the 1852- 1862 directories as a retail brewer, with Mrs Francis Bromage there as retail brewer 1867-1878. Mrs Emma Talkington is listed as landlord from 1879.

In 1850 George is listed at 26 Severn St as a coal dealer & builder, which was on the opposite side of the road, the other side of Suffolk St. In 1845 he is at no 26 but listed as a bricklayer

 

Jules65

master brummie
Thank you mikejee - that's brilliant and so interesting. The map also shows Fordrough Street which is where my great grandparents also lived. I think they had a bakery there. George Bromage was my great great grandfather. Nice to see parts of Birmingham that now no longer exist. Thanks again.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
You may already know this but:
George Bromage (buried 26 June 1864) and Frances Bromage (buried 3 January 1879) are listed at St Saviours in Saltley. I know the Frances is right as it says Severn Street but I am not sure about the George.
Emma married Jesse Talkington on 5 February 1854 at St Bartholomews Edgbaston. Emma Talkington is still listed in 1895 at Severn Street as a beer retailer.

There is an Emma Talkington on both the 1901 and 1911 censuses living in William Street. There is also a death registered in 1926 at the age of 90. With a probate to a Susan Chant Price. I am not sure if any of this is relevant or not.

Janice
 

Jules65

master brummie
Thanks for the information Janice. I did have some of it - will have to find the info on later census relating to Emma Talkington. Where was William Street? I am looking through some of my family history and trying to put it into context i.e. where in Birmingham they were living. Today I found out that Fordrough Street was round the corner to Severn Street where my great great grandparents were living. Have been unable to find a birth record for George Bromage as of yet, or his marriage to Frances. As their first child Thomas was born in 1832 I'm guessing around 1830 but have had no luck so far.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Should have added that no 16 seems to disappear betwen the 1895 & 1896 directories
 

Jules65

master brummie
Have found the probate record you mentioned Janice :) I wonder who Annie Emma Susan Chant Price was? Emma Talkington had a daughter Annie Emma Talkington b1855 in Birmingham. She married late in life in 1905 aged 50 to John Millward. He was the proprietor of Dingley's Hotel in Moor Street. I cannot seem to find a marriage of Annie Emma Susan (?) to Segebert Chant Price as yet to get her maiden name. I am wondering if she was a child born to Emma Bromage before she married John Millward. The mystery deepens lol
 

pollypops

master brummie
Just to confirm Mike's comments about 16 Severn Street disappearing when the Railway Yard was expanded here is an advert in 1895 for an auction by direction of the Midland Railway Company for the fixtures and fittings and brewing plant of the NELSON INN, Severn St, along with the building materials of 16 dwelling houses.
Birmingham Daily Post - Thursday 21 February 1895
 

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pollypops

master brummie
Here is an article about publicans being fined for keeping their houses open at improper hours on Sunday.
Listed is George Bromage, Nelson Inn, Severn Street

The Birmingham Daily Post - Thursday 16th May 1861
 

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pollypops

master brummie
On the 5th January 1870 Frances Bromage of Nelson Tavern, Severn Street placed a notice in the Birmingham Daily Post stating that she would not be responsible for the debts of her daughter Fanny E Daniels, wife of Joseph Daniels of Upper Gough Street
 

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pollypops

master brummie
In 1883 Emma Talkington, Nelson Inn, Severn Street was accused of injuring Elizabeth Preece who had gone to the Inn to find the man she was 'housekeeper' to. The case was stopped because of contradictory evidence.
Birmingham Daily Post 30th November 1883
 

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pollypops

master brummie
I am not sure if this links in with your family but I found a death announcement for Thomas age 1 year and 5 months, twin son of Mr R T Bromage of Severn Street.

Birmingham Daily Post Saturday 22nd April 1865
 

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pjmburns

master brummie
Have found the probate record you mentioned Janice :) I wonder who Annie Emma Susan Chant Price was? Emma Talkington had a daughter Annie Emma Talkington b1855 in Birmingham. She married late in life in 1905 aged 50 to John Millward. He was the proprietor of Dingley's Hotel in Moor Street. I cannot seem to find a marriage of Annie Emma Susan (?) to Segebert Chant Price as yet to get her maiden name. I am wondering if she was a child born to Emma Bromage before she married John Millward. The mystery deepens lol
Annie Glover married Segebert Price in 1925 in MIddlesex. Not sure if she was married before or not.

Janice
 

Jules65

master brummie
On the 5th January 1870 Frances Bromage of Nelson Tavern, Severn Street placed a notice in the Birmingham Daily Post stating that she would not be responsible for the debts of her daughter Fanny E Daniels, wife of Joseph Daniels of Upper Gough Street
Pollypops thank you for so much information. This makes me wonder about Frances Bromage's relationship with her daughter. Was her daughter running up debts I wonder. Fanny E. Daniels died in 1871 and I wonder if she was ill in 1870 when this notice was posted it was a way of ensuring should she die her debts wouldn't be passed to her mother, though wouldn't her debts have been passed to her husband? Though I suppose if the business was being run by Fanny in her mother's name Joseph wouldn't be entitled to the business once his wife had died.
Once again thank you for all the newspaper clippings - they certainly give an insight into this family of mine :)
 

Jules65

master brummie
I am not sure if this links in with your family but I found a death announcement for Thomas age 1 year and 5 months, twin son of Mr R T Bromage of Severn Street.

Birmingham Daily Post Saturday 22nd April 1865
This is a sad notice showing the death of a child. Yes this is part of my Bromage family. Reuben Thomas Bromage was the son of George and Frances Bromage. I hadn't found him or his twin brother before so this gave me something to go on. Sadly his twin brother a Harry Bromage also died in 1865 and was buried at St. Saviours, Saltley on 26th February. So so sad losing two children just a month apart.
Was this a usual thing for a family to put in the papers or did it mean that they were a family of some standing to do this?
 

pollypops

master brummie
Jules65 - Here is the announcement of the death of Thomas' twin brother Harry Bromage - he died 0n the 22nd February.
I'm not sure how much it cost to put announcements in the paper but I can't imagine you would do it if you were short of money.

The Birmingham Daily Post 23rd February 1865
 

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