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National Service

oldMohawk said:
All this talk about billet inspections tempted me to drag a pic I put on long ago down to here. Our billet at Padgate looked so good someone took a pic. Just look at the reflection in that coke bin, and the stove flue shines. Not a cobweb or spec of dust anywhere.
normal_Smart_Billet_RAF_Padgate.jpg
Click to expand...

oldMohawk, that`s a hell of a photo, but i would just like to point out that the third bed from the bottom on the left is at least half inch out of true. Just kidding, it looks immaculate, & a table & benches in the middle, + two stoves. I never came across anything like that.
 
Thinking of 'near misses' I had during National Service, I can remember one I had when I was standing on the top of a step ladder leaning over a four bladed propellor checking a sensor on one of the four engines. I had opened all the ignition circuit breakers but didn't allow for an idiot sitting in the cockpit who saw a big red starter button and for some reason pressed it. Suddenly I was lifted off the step ladder as the prop started to turn and found myself sitting on top of the engine.
 
Smudger said:
oldMohawk, that`s a hell of a photo, but i would just like to point out that the third bed from the bottom on the left is at least half inch out of true. Just kidding, it looks immaculate, & a table & benches in the middle, + two stoves. I never came across anything like that.
Click to expand...
Hi Smudger - Three months later on trade training at RAF Melksham, standards had slipped somewhat. I'm in the pic on the near left.
normal_Inside_Hut_RAF_Melksham.JPG
 
paul stacey said:
Thinking back Smudg, they were happy days really amazing what you could put up with, and cope, when young, The thing that the British Army was brilliant at, Austin, was team building and motivation 400 years of square bashing, and hard training, made you want your particular, detail, squad, company, squadron, be the best. This was whatever your regiment, and what your inclination on joining the military was, ie: Forced service or volunteer service.
Click to expand...

Aye Paul, they were mostly happy days But a big gob like me spent a week or two in the glasshouse for speaking out of turn. It took me a long time to learn to keep my mouth shut no matter how stupid the order was. Looking back, it`s all about learning; the good things & the crap.
 
oldMohawk said:
Thinking of 'near misses' I had during National Service, I can remember one I had when I was standing on the top of a step ladder leaning over a four bladed propellor checking a sensor on one of the four engines. I had opened all the ignition circuit breakers but didn't allow for an idiot sitting in the cockpit who saw a big red starter button and for some reason pressed it. Suddenly I was lifted off the step ladder as the prop started to turn and found myself sitting on top of the engine.
Click to expand...

You were lucky mate. If that plane had been one of Ryanair`s you`d have been charged extra for having a seat with extra leg space.
 
Smudge, talking about speaking out, I could not let my feeling get bottled up even when I knew there would a comeback from the higher ranks. At Gosport I was a local acting trade lance jack, with a certain amout of authority, looking after a billet of lads on the next intake down, as I have said before some were good and some not so. On Wednesday afternoons I had to leave a billet orderly in when we went to play sport, usually I would get a volanteer to look after the billet. This one day we came back to the billet and Alex had been bulling the Sgt boots which were worn out, who was in charge of our two billet, a bloke I did not like, with piggy slit eyes and you could never please him. I said hang on Alex I will go and see the C.S.M as Sgt's were not allowed to have batmen to do their kit. I saw the C.S.M and asked the question, "Definately not corporal" "Who was it" "Do I have to say Sir" "You Do". Now the muck is in the fan, he will take it out on the lads in the billet and I have dropped them in it just by standing up for them. I told him and he was very good, "I will have a word with the Sgt and there will not be any come back" " Thank you Sir" And there was not anything said except I had dirty looks on the Saturday on C.Os inspection. I think he thought that no one in the lower ranks would report him and if he tried anything on again I might do the same again,so he backed off.
A horrible man he was , thank God we only saw him at the week ends.
Dave
 
That little bu--er of a corporal at Barton Stacey who was very short, had his comeupance when we passed out. Out of the four platoons we were the best, no thanks to him really. Although my bolt jammed after presenting arms for inspection but I carried on with the bolt out so that I did not make a noise after the others had completed the move. I ended up with a cut on the back of my hand because to shoulder arms I had to grab the area where the bolt was covering, blood everywhere and when the officer came along the ranks he asked me if I was O.K as he could see the blood. That was the last day of training at that camp and our horrible little Lcp cleared off to Andover because he knew we were after him and he was not our instructor any more. He did not come back until lights out so he could not see what we had done to his kit and his bed, he had no kit, that was spread around the four huts along with his bedding, his bed was a folding leg type which would colapse when sat on, it did. We all made out we were asleep when he came in and all we did was keep shtum.
The next day we were put in another billet which had a concrete floor and no dust, we were there for a week then off to Gosport to start the real job.
Dave
 
Dave, that story reminded me, we had a lad called, "Fisher" in our spider at Pirbright, he was't a bad lad came from Hilltop, West Brom, he was spotless, but had (cheesy feet), any way one night after going to the NAAFI, we came back and while he was in the ablutions we ,made a "French Bed", just a laugh really. Then some so and so, thought after lights out it would be funny to tie some rope round his steel locker and attach it to his bed end. Anyway in comes Fisher in the dark we are all giggling under our blankets. He takes a great jump into his bed, the thing collapses and pulls over the steel locker. In the Guards the top of the steel locker comprised of large pack, on top, small pack, each side, best drill boots on top of small pack side by side kidney pouches, on top was our steel helmet. with the Guards issue name plate, toped by Regimental forage cap. Well you can imagine the noise, and the screams, his boots sailed through the air and smashed through the window opposite, showering the room with broken glass just as the, 'Duty Picket CSM' was passing. He came in screaming blowing his whistle to call out the Guard, the locker was smashed, so was the bed opposite, glass and kit everywhere. Lights, on Stand by your beds, no one owned up, fall in outside in a single file, each man take a fire bucket from around the spider and stand to attention with bucket held out in front arm locked chest height. Well we stood there for a good hour till the erk, owned up, him and poor old Fisher marched off to the Guard room, whole spider on a charge in morning, 252 (1914), loss 3 days pay plus 10/- each man for barrack room damage. Everyman spent the whole night cleaning up the spider and after Brekkers at 7.30, 4 hours drill on the main square, we did't do anything like that any more I can tell you. paul
 
This was a good one. Gosport, No 10 barracks. I slept up the corner of the billet and opposite but one was bedded Stan Jones from Plymouth, had a very dry humour with a strong West country dialect, a nice bloke but a bit of a tease. This one night he was playing up a couple of the lads who had had enough of Stan Jones so they grabbed him and pushed a broom handle up one sleeve across his back and down the other sleeve. Then two more, one up each leg then dropped him on his bed and we all went off to the N.A.A.F.I He was still there when we got back cursing like hell.
Dave
 
I slept in the corner of the billet and Stan Jones from Plymouth slept opposite but one, a nice lad but a bit of a tease with a very strong West country accent. One night he was playing up a couple of the lads so they grabbed him and shoved a broom handle up one sleeve of his B.D and down the other then one up each leg and bumped him on his bed and we all went of to the N.A.A.F.I.. He was still there when we got back as he could not move, cursing like hell.
dave
 
National Service men

I have read most of these threads and have enjoyed "The Brummies in the military service" opening up about their time during National Serice. I believe that most of the spectrum has been opened up for us people on this site who didn't put a uniform on. A question for everybody, I saw a film many years ago called "Carry on Sgt.", William Hartnel, Eric Barker, Bob Monkhouse, Charles Hawtrey, Norman Rossington, Bill Owen, Gerald Campion etc.....(Wonderful British Character actors of that time). Did this film get it right with the way that they portrayed Military service at that time?
There is a story about Bob Monkhouse, that he could blind folded, strip a Lee Enfield 303 and put it back together again with out a problem!
Could you associate these actors with the people you served with in the military?
Thanks again
 
I don't know about strippping down the weapon to the bones as it is not necessary to do so, there are very few removeable parts on the 303. Tools required are hammer pin punch and screwdriver to remove the wood stock. The bolt and the bolt head are the only parts that can get lost if they are removed, all the rest need tools to remove them, the foresight needs a punch and a hammer, the butt plate needs a screwdriver, the rear sight a fine punch and if you lose the smallist part of the rifle (Pin retaining pin axis back sight) you cannot use the backsight only by keeping an eye on it to see if the axis pin is holding without the cross pin. Lads did lose bolts from their weapons and that was a serious matter, I have known a whole troop of lads go back up the ranges to find a twopenny halfpenny Bren mag which had got lost having brought one box to me with one missing, that also was chargeable.
As regards Mr Monkhouse needing to strip it down, how far did he go, I could have done the same to the bones but it was not needed.
Dave
 
Dave

I believe that "Bob" had worked in the factory(Before he became famous) where they assembled the 303, probably he had worked on all operations of assembling the afor mentioned rifle. The accuracy of the 303 was up to 1,000 yards, so I am lead to believe, whats your take on this. "I dont want to go off topic".
 
thecaptain51 said:
Dave

I believe that "Bob" had worked in the factory(Before he became famous) where they assembled the 303, probably he had worked on all operations of assembling the afor mentioned rifle. The accuracy of the 303 was up to 1,000 yards, so I am lead to believe, whats your take on this. "I dont want to go off topic".
Click to expand...

I can`t speak for the 303, as it was replaced by the SLR when i was in. The SLR was a nice weapon for marching, but when it came to target shooting, i was worse than useless. Even at a 100 yards i would stuggle to hit the target. As for the accuracy of the 303 up to a 1000yards you would have to be extremely talented to hit anything ( i don`t think i can even see that far! ) Now when it came to the Stirling sub machine gun it didn`t have a great range, but up to 50 yards even i could hit the target, a lovely weapon to fire.
 
thecaptain51 said:
National Service men

I have read most of these threads and have enjoyed "The Brummies in the military service" opening up about their time during National Serice. I believe that most of the spectrum has been opened up for us people on this site who didn't put a uniform on. A question for everybody, I saw a film many years ago called "Carry on Sgt.", William Hartnel, Eric Barker, Bob Monkhouse, Charles Hawtrey, Norman Rossington, Bill Owen, Gerald Campion etc.....(Wonderful British Character actors of that time). Did this film get it right with the way that they portrayed Military service at that time?
There is a story about Bob Monkhouse, that he could blind folded, strip a Lee Enfield 303 and put it back together again with out a problem!
Could you associate these actors with the people you served with in the military?
Thanks again
Click to expand...
I did meet characters similar to those in that 'Carry On Sgt' film, the 'loud' ones mainly during basic training, others in various camps. On an working base I was in the Instrument Section which had a 'jumped up' Chief Technician in charge of the electrical side who had joined up in the early fifties and couldn't tell you anything without shouting and nasty with it. On the instrument side we had a grey haired old Chief Technician who had joined up in the latter part of WW2. He was tired and hanging on for his imminent retirement and pension and seemed like an old granddad to us young chaps. However he could get airmen to work correctly without shouting and we respected him and willingly followed his orders and instructions. One problem he did have was getting up in the mornings, and on many occasions we would nip over to his house and get him out of bed while covering up for him. An interesting thing is I can remember his name today but not the other NCO.
 
Guys
Did you do your N/S with any famous people actors, entertainers, footballers etc...and what were they like, I dont think this is off topic, its about your time served.

The Captain
 
Captain, did not meet any well known person serving during my 8 years RAF service, but did meet Dr Fisher Archbishop of Canturbury whilst serving in Sierra Leone on the ferry to Freetown 1950 and the Duke of Kent at Nairobi (RAF Eastleigh) also in 1950 and my late Wife crossed the ferry in Hong Kong chatting to Elena Rooservelt whilst I was stationed at Kai Tak in 1953, also met the Emir of Kano, Nigeria when we gave him a flight in one of our Lancasters (unfortunatetly he was air sick!). Eric
 
Captain51, I did my training at Blandford (RASC) with Kenny Lynch the entertainer.
Then while serving with 22 Coy. RASC at Taunton Somerset, driving staff cars, I was stand by driver when we had a visit by Fieldmarshall Slim.
The main driver was two months senior to me, that's why I was stand by.
 
In 1961 i was attached to a rapid response unit (that`s a laugh) We were ordered out to British Honduras (Belize) after they suffered a hurricane. We flew from Gatwick (saw Billy Fury making a film there), landed in Eire to refuel, across the Atlantic to Gander, then on to Idlewild airport (New York) then on to Jamaica, & finally to B/honduras. All in all it took about 3 days. Not very rapid was it?
 
The reason it came so easily to these people was that most if not all would have seen military service in either war time or by national service, and yes I think it did portray NS quite well.
 
thecaptain51 said:
Dave

I believe that "Bob" had worked in the factory(Before he became famous) where they assembled the 303, probably he had worked on all operations of assembling the afor mentioned rifle. The accuracy of the 303 was up to 1,000 yards, so I am lead to believe, whats your take on this. "I dont want to go off topic".
Click to expand...

The sights on my No 4 .303 go up to 1300 yds. It wasn't required to engage and hit a target at that range, it was more usual for a group of men to fire at a far off area of ground where an enemy was, to make life uncomfortable for him. A practice that originated during the Boer War I believe.

Dave, I've just been following your rundown of the anatomy of the .303, I've got the "Pin retaining pin axis backsight" mate!
 
Good Baz, To hit a target or person at that distance would take a marksman with tele sights, as somebody said that they have a problem seeing that far. The .303 had one hell of a kick, many of the lads I showed how to fire correctly were good but it was the after effects that were the trouble, the bruise and sore shoulder as I have mentioned before. That is what put a lot of the lads off using that weapon,NOW!!! Come to the short barrel of the F.N you lose accuracy, no kick back, the longer the barrel, the more accurate. I saw a 5 ft long Moose rifle which had been surrenderd to the Police, this rifle had a support for it, basically a catapult on a long pole which was driven into the ground and the rifle rested on it, it was made in Sweden.
Dave
,
 
Concerning train travel during our times in the forces, myself and a couple of mates used to catch the 9.00pm Bristol - Newcastle on Sunday nights and had to sit normally in a 3rd class compartment until Tamworth because New St was an 'open' station and a ticket collector checked tickets before he left the train at Tamworth. There were no further ticket checks until we got off at Thirsk, so as the train left Tamworth we rushed to the 1st class coaches and dived into an empty compartment pulling blinds down, light bulbs out, three cushions on the floor, the doors tied together so we could get some sleep. Not many 1st class passengers seemed to travel late on Sundays so there was less chance of being disturbed and we always left the compartment tidy just as we had found it. Leaving the train at Thirsk was exciting because for a particular reason we usually made our way to the rear coach about 5 miles from the station, opened the doors and jumped out on the station platform while it was still going at 15/20mph !
 
Dave, I don't know if you have, or knew about, or come across one, during your service as a Tiff, but it was my pleasure once, to fire a "Baker short barrel", circa 1807, this was I believe the first rifled, rifle used by the British Army, issued I think to mainly "Light Company men", and the light Infantry, Green Jackets etc. Well if you think that the .303 had a kick, and it certainly did, it was a ride in the park to one of these. It was black powder in a greased paper case with lead "bullet" fired by flint, it had a 2 second delay once the pan powder ignited, then a tremendous retort, with the rifle kicking back hard. I was told "by those who knew", that an experienced sharpshooter could kill a man at 300yrds with one of these, I actually hit the target twice at about 60yds out of 5 goes. I was told that a famous incident in the Peninsular War, a British Rifleman shot and killed a French General at 5/6oo yrds. paul
 
I thought that firing the .303 was dead easy, very little kick back as far as I were concerned.
Not bragging here, just as I found it.
 
Each to their own, I guess, having spent a couple of days on the ranges firing the .303 Lee Enfield, or the 7.62 SLR, I know which I preferred to spend a whole day firing.
 
Austin, look at my post #679 the 4-10-2012 I lived arms for two years and I know what is like firing a.303 (and in my day) the F.N. I fired weapons you have never seen. Paul is right I know which one I would choose as well.
Dave
 
As I said, I didn't find it too excessive or hard to handle.
I've fired the SLR in civvy life while with the Royal Observer Corps, good gun too.
 
I have never heard of that one or fired it. Paul you have got to remember the torch hole was open to the atmosphere so you would get a hell of a blast in front of your eyes, smoke and all the burnt powder and the kick back. Fancy looking at the target then knowing it would disappear as you closed your eyes to stop them getting full of burnt powder.
I had the good fortune to handle a Colt .450 in the army, gosh what a weapon, the length and the weight, I think it must have been 15-16 ins from the muzzle to hand grip, I thought the army No 8 was bad enough, that was a waste of time. The bullet tried to go straight but the barrel was rifled so the pistol rotated to the right when discharged, if anybody ever hit the target they must have been lucky, it was only meant for close combat. I think today they are allowed to two hands to fire it, in my day it was one and you could not hold against the twist.
dave
 
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