More Detecting, Thomas Rogers

[NOTSHARP]

A wee bit of detecting on my family tree.

Some three years ago, I found a census record for my Maternal grandparents.
1911.



However, when I looked at the original document.



I noticed there was child noted, that had died.

Now, it gets interesting.

Two living daughters:
Constance Ivy Lily: born 1909
Violet May: born 1911

However, Thomas Rogers and Lilly Butler, did not marry until 1907.



So, I see, either a twin died, or a child born before they married. Not unknown then, or now.

A search was, of course, called for, and I think that I have an answer.



A few pointers that convinced me that this could be correct.
Lily May :
Mother's name, LILY
Other child, Constance Ivy LILY
Other child, Violet MAY

DOB is about right, especially, as it was always said that Gran Lil "got married young". Maybe not married officially, but a young mother at 18?

I am awaiting a pdf of the BC.



What I can not find, so far, is a death record, either on GRO , freebdm, or FMP.

Does the team think that I am heading down the correct rabbit hole?

Steve.

 

[MWS]

Unfortunately, I don't think so. Lily May Rogers registered Mar qtr 1905 appears to be the daughter of Frank Rogers and his first wife Ada Butler.

Born Erdington, living in Erdington on 1911 census.

 

[MWS]

Possibly your missing child was listed as Annie Emma Rodgers, mmn Butler Sep qtr 1907 Birmingham. Death registered same qtr.

 

[NOTSHARP]

Unfortunately, I don't think so. Lily May Rogers registered Mar qtr 1905 appears to be the daughter of Frank Rogers and his first wife Ada Taylor.

Born Erdington, living in Erdington on 1911 census.

Many thanks for you input. All help is appreciated.

But, I'm not following you.

The vol 6D, page 381 record that I found, shows the mother's maiden name as Butler.

What am I missing (or not seeing).

Steve.

 

[MWS]

Sorry, Frank Rogers first wife Ada Butler, mis-typed Taylor (corrected) which was his second wife.

 

[MWS]

Many thanks for you input. All help is appreciated.

But, I'm not following you.

The vol 6D, page 381 record that I found, shows the mother's maiden name as Butler.

What am I missing (or not seeing).

Steve.

Mis-typed see previous post. Sorry.

 

[Astoness]

just something i noticed...on the marr cert the brides name is transcribed as baker which can happen

 

[Astoness]

also found a death in 1907 for a thomas george rogers...born 1907

 

[MWS]

just something i noticed...on the marr cert the brides name is transcribed as baker which can happen

Looks like it but just bad writing. Lily's signature is definitely Butler and is registered as such.

 

[NOTSHARP]

also found a death in 1907 for a thomas george rogers...born 1907

My mother told us that she had a brother who died, but my brother's and I, seem to remember "younger brother", and I thought that this was he.

First name(s)	Thomas A
Last name	Rogers
Birth quarter	1
Birth year	1916
Mother's maiden name	Butler
District	Birmingham
County	Warwickshire
Country	England
Volume	6D
Page	522

BC confirms



Not to say that there was not another, that died.

Steve.

 

[NOTSHARP]

Possibly your missing child was listed as Annie Emma Rodgers, mmn Butler Sep qtr 1907 Birmingham. Death registered same qtr.

Could you let me know where you have found that information, please. Ancestry? If so, I do not have a subscription, but looked elsewhere with no hits.


Steve.

 

[NOTSHARP]

Looks like it but just bad writing. Lily's signature is definitely Butler and is registered as such.

Agreed.

I now notice that one of the witnesses is also a Butler, Frederick, her brother.

Steve.

 

[MWS]

Could you let me know where you have found that information, please. Ancestry? If so, I do not have a subscription, but looked elsewhere with no hits.


Steve.

Births with mmn prior to 1911 are available from the GRO...

General Register Office - Online Ordering Service - Login

You need to register but no subscription is needed. Searching is not as flexible as other sites but is useful in conjunction with them.

 

[Astoness]

My mother told us that she had a brother who died, but my brother's and I, seem to remember "younger brother", and I thought that this was he.

First name(s)	Thomas A
Last name	Rogers
Birth quarter	1
Birth year	1916
Mother's maiden name	Butler
District	Birmingham
County	Warwickshire
Country	England
Volume	6D
Page	522

BC confirms



Not to say that there was not another, that died.

Steve.

so steve it is possible that the thomas george rogers who died in 1907 could have had a brother named after him in 1916..no concrete evidence though..as lily registered the birth of thomas born 1916 it could be that dad was away at war

lyn

lyn

 

[MWS]

He could be the George Thomas Rogers mmn Ball, registered Aston Mar qtr 1907. He doesn't seem to be on the 1911 census.

 

[NOTSHARP]

so steve it is possible that the thomas george rogers who died in 1907 could have had a brother named after him in 1916..no concrete evidence though..as lily registered the birth of thomas born 1916 it could be that dad was away at war

lyn

lyn

Yes, more than possible, I'm sure.

GF Thomas did serve throughout the WW1. I have all of his Army records.


Steve.

 

[NOTSHARP]

Births with mmn prior to 1911 are available from the GRO...

General Register Office - Online Ordering Service - Login

You need to register but no subscription is needed. Searching is not as flexible as other sites but is useful in conjunction with them.

Yes, I am registered, but my search comes up a fail.

Steve.

 

[Astoness]

He could be the George Thomas Rogers mmn Ball, registered Aston Mar qtr 1907. He doesn't seem to be on the 1911 census.

confused now i thought lily beatrices maiden name was butler

 

[MWS]

Are you searching for Rodgers with a d ?

 

[NOTSHARP]

confused now i thought lily beatrices maiden name was butler

Yes. mmn definitely Butler.


Steve.

 

[NOTSHARP]

Are you searching for Rodgers with a d ?

Tried with, and without.


Steve.

 

[MWS]

confused now i thought lily beatrices maiden name was butler

Sorry, I was suggesting that George Thomas could be the corresponding birth to the death of the Thomas George you mentioned in post #8.

 

[MWS]

Tried with, and without.


Steve.

Not sure what the problem is, this is what I'm seeing....

 

[Astoness]

Are you searching for Rodgers with a d ?

no im looking for the child that died before the 1911 as said earlier i found thomas george rogers born and died 1907 although i cant find a mmn ...thought it could be a possible as lily and thomas married that year

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

The trouble is that if the baby was stillborn it would count for the Mom but might never have been registered. However such registration did not start until 1926.

 

[MWS]

no im looking for the child that died before the 1911 as said earlier i found thomas george rogers born and died 1907 although i cant find a mmn ...thought it could be a possible as lily and thomas married that year

lyn

Some cross replies I think, that one was to NOTSHARP, who couldn't find Annie Emma Rodgers.

I can see the death for the Thomas George Rogers you found Lyn - Jun qtr 1907 Aston - but no birth. That's why I suggested the birth of George Thomas Rogers - Mar qtr 1907 Aston - as a corresponding birth.

He had the mmn Ball, which would rule him out if correct.

 

[MWS]

Circumstantial evidence in favour of the missing daughter being Annie Emma Rodgers.

Thomas' mother was called Ann and Lily's mother was called Emma.

 

[NOTSHARP]

Circumstantial evidence in favour of the missing daughter being Annie Emma Rodgers.

Thomas' mother was called Ann and Lily's mother was called Emma.

Yes, that's a sound possibility. Thank you.


Steve.

 

[NOTSHARP]

Unfortunately, I don't think so. Lily May Rogers registered Mar qtr 1905 appears to be the daughter of Frank Rogers and his first wife Ada Butler.

Born Erdington, living in Erdington on 1911 census.

You were, of course, correct.

pdf from GRO.






Steve.