Missing Family members - Wheeler / Baker

[JaneMTaylor]

I am trying to find more information on my Gt Gran - Lily / Lillian / Lilian Wheeler (Nee Baker) She was born 20.05.1878 and married George Frederick Wheeler (DOB 19.02.1877) on 4.12.1898. They had 5 children in total as follows;
Arthur Frederick 1899-1900
Florence Lilian Wheeler 1901 - ?
Doris 1902-1926
Ellen (Helen) Mary 1904 -1992 (My Nan)
Eva Gertrude 1909-1911

I can find the family in Aston, Birmingham on the 1911 census, but then nothing!

Family history stories say that Florence, Doris and Ellen were bought up in a convent called St Josephs. I have found two listed (Brougham Street and Long Acre). I have emailed the Sisters at St Pauls who ran Long Acre, but they do not appear to have any information. I cannot find any contact details for St Josephs Home for Girls, 31 Brougham Street. It is interesting that G Wheeler, their dad is living in Brougham Street at a 'dwelling house', prior to being at Rowton House.

There is no trace of Lily, it was mentioned that she may have died in 1913, but I have asked for a copy death certificate from Birmingham who say that this relates to a child.

I can see Florence living at 77a Dymock Street, which coincidentally is where 'Tuzzio' lives, who I believe she goes on to marry

On the marriage certificate (1929) for Ellen it shows the address as 31 Grantham Road, but I cannot find out who else lived there

I am at a loss to find out more information from 1911 onwards, any help will be gratefully received for any of these family members.


Many thanks,

Jane

 

[MWS]

There is a death registered for a Lily Wheeler in Birmingham, Dec qtr of 1952. Age is listed as 74.

It looks like John and Annie Stevenson lived at 31 Grantham Road (Sparkbrook) from 1912 to 1939.

 

[Astoness]

hi jane i think i can help a little bit as brougham st is my neck o the woods and i have studied the area quite a bit..

here is a map showing brougham st on it you will see st josephs and also the house of mercy which was a domestic training home for girls run by the nuns from st marys convent that is in hunters road (next to brougham st) as far as i am aware the convent hold all the records for st josephs and the house of mercy..

i visited st marys convent last year making an enquiry of my own and their records do not start until after the 1880s so you maybe lucky..if your rellies were bought up either in st josephs or the convert they may have the records you are looking for.

you need to email the convents archivist jenny...just say that linda from the birmingham history forum suggested you contact her...email address is

[email protected]

here is the brougham st map..neither st josephs or the house of mercy are still standing im afraid..if you save this map you will be able to zoom into it for a closer look or you can click on it 3 times to enlarge..hope this helps...i have also moved this thread to our surname interests section as you may get more response...

lyn

 

[Alberta]

Florence married William b Tuzzio
children
Bernard
Anthony
Chriatina
Beryl
Roma
John
David

Florence Tuzzio died in 1958 age 56.

 

[JaneMTaylor]

There is a death registered for a Lily Wheeler in Birmingham, Dec qtr of 1952. Age is listed as 74.

It looks like John and Annie Stevenson lived at 31 Grantham Road (Sparkbrook) from 1912 to 1939.

Thank you MWS - I will see if I can get a copy of the death certificate and find out if this has any more clues.

 

[JaneMTaylor]

Hi Astoness, Thank you so much for all the information. I will start making further checks and email them as you suggest. I think I may see a little chink of light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[JaneMTaylor]

Dear Alberta

Thank you for the information. I will update my family tree and see what else links in. Where did you find this data as I have not been able to trace Florence through Ancestry very well.

Jane

 

[Astoness]

Dear Alberta

Thank you for the information. I will update my family tree and see what else links in. Where did you find this data as I have not been able to trace Florence through Ancestry very well.

Jane

hello jane i maybe sticking my neck out here but i see more than a light at the end of the tunnel...beings as though you have florence doris and ellens dad at an address in brougham st i think it must be st josephs brougham st that they were brought up in....strange that you can find no definate death for lily but if as you suspect she died in 1913 that would explain why the children could have been looked after by the nuns as dad would have had to go out to work or just fell on hard times as rowton house was orginally for men with such problems it is a hotel now..just in case you have not found it on the net click on the link below..i shall do some digging around for you later on...oh what year was G Wheeler living in brougham st and how did you find this out..just trying to build up a picture of the family

https://www.workhouses.org.uk/RowtonBirmingham/


can you keep us updated please with any info that you may find...

all the best

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

I am not sure if you know this but George seems to have died in 1928 - there is a death record (born about 1877 and died Sep 1928 - Birmingham South, page 62 volume 6d).
Also a probate leaving just over £163 to Florence Lilian Wheeler a spinster. I am not sure if this is the right one but the name of Florence as well is a big coincidence. I think the address given is actually "Rowton House".

Janice

 

[Astoness]

hi janice well george did have a daughter florence lilian so you could be right...although having said that it does seem a lot to leave if he was living at rowton house..on the other hand could george have been working there and living in..

lyn

 

[JaneMTaylor]

hello jane i maybe sticking my neck out here but i see more than a light at the end of the tunnel...beings as though you have florence doris and ellens dad at an address in brougham st i think it must be st josephs brougham st that they were brought up in....strange that you can find no definate death for lily but if as you suspect she died in 1913 that would explain why the children could have been looked after by the nuns as dad would have had to go out to work or just fell on hard times as rowton house was orginally for men with such problems it is a hotel now..just in case you have not found it on the net click on the link below..i shall do some digging around for you later on...oh what year was G Wheeler living in brougham st and how did you find this out..just trying to build up a picture of the family

https://www.workhouses.org.uk/RowtonBirmingham/


can you keep us updated please with any info that you may find...

all the best

lyn

Hi Lyn

I will keep you up to date. Just adding the Tuzzio family to Ancestry to see what comes up next. George Wheeler did die in 1928 and did leave money to Florence. It is a mystery as to why or how this was possible. There is another member of this forum (SheronB) who was looking for the same family - posting called 'Raised by Nuns', but he was not responding to my postings hence starting a new thread. Some think that he was working at Rowton, not just living there.

I found George living at 7 Albert Cottages, Brougham Street purely by accident. I was looking for 31 Brougham Street (St Josephs Home for Girls) and through a random Ancestry search found him. Therefore it seems likely that the girls went into the convent and he found lodgings nearby. This was in 1912, and also fits that his youngest daughter dies in 1911.

I did think that Lily dying in 1913 would be a reason, but that certificate is for a child, so no death date for her yet.

Many thanks,
Jane

 

[pjmburns]

hi janice well george did have a daughter florence lilian so you could be right...although having said that it does seem a lot to leave if he was living at rowton house..on the other hand could george have been working there and living in..

lyn

I thought that but when I looked up the address and found Rowton House was roughly at that number in Alcester Street I wondered if perhaps he was a manager rather than a lodger? We need access to a Kelly's for that year as it lists the manager(at least it does in earlier volumes) but I don't have access to that date.

Janice

 

[mikejee]

George Frederick Wheeler is listed on the electoral roll as being at Rowton house in 1925 and 1927, which is a long time for a non-manager

 

[Astoness]

thanks mike...i think he must have worked there in some capacity and lived in especially taking into account the amount of money he left when he died...

jane if you look again at the map i posted for you you will see albert cottages on the opposite side of the street to st josephs

lyn

 

[JaneMTaylor]

thanks mike...i think he must have worked there in some capacity and lived in especially taking into account the amount of money he left when he died...

jane if you look again at the map i posted for you you will see albert cottages on the opposite side of the street to st josephs

lyn

This is fantastic progress. Many thanks to all. I am glad that this appears to be work related rather than hard times. How can I get this confirmed? Glad to see that George stayed close for awhile. If he moved to Rowton in 1925 this was 3 years before Ellen got married.

However I am still confused about Lily. Why did she leave the family and for this to cause the girls to go into the convent? Why did she not come forward when George died?

still a lot of questions but getting clearer.

 

[Astoness]

hi jane we love a mystery on this forum and only too glad to help...given that so far we cant find a death for lily in birmingham for around 1913 it could be she died after that and of course it may not have even been a birmingham death...i was going to suggest that maybe for what ever reason lily left george and the children and set up with someone else...things like this did happen and dont forget in close days to save face a more acceptable reason was made up if someone walked out on the family such as they told folk they had died..this is only my guess work of course..not sure who you would contact with regards to confirming if george actually did work within rowton house maybe someone on here will know...i am actually pinning a lot on you being able to find the records for the children at st josephs because there maybe something written down as to why they ended up there and what happened to their mother..dont give up though i shall have another dig around tomorrow..never know what may turn up

lyn

 

[Astoness]

jane take a deep breath.....it was not lily who died in 1913 it was george...just found his buriel record..

george wheeler

buried 1913 aston parish church which is also the church were he and lily married..

address given as 7 albert cottages brougham st...aged 46

so the one at rowton house is not your george wheeler and its looking likely that lily could have remarried either that or we need to look for her death under the name of wheeler after 1913..

lyn

 

[JaneMTaylor]

jane take a deep breath.....it was not lily who died in 1913 it was george...just found his buriel record..

george wheeler

buried 1913 aston parish church which is also the church were he and lily married..

address given as 7 albert cottages brougham st...aged 46

so the one at rowton house is not your george wheeler and its looking likely that lily could have remarried either that or we need to look for her death under the name of wheeler after 1913..

lyn

Now that makes more sense. But George did leave money to Florence not Lily so something may have happened. I have emailed St Mary's and will let you know what they say. I have one remaining living uncle (a son of Ellen) but unfortunately he does not have the full story either. He thinks that George and Lily used to 'tread the boards' and she kept staying out late. Deep breath taken on with the research. Many thanks

 

[Astoness]

hi jane where do you have the family living on the 1911 census

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

If the "right" George died in 1913 then the one who left money to Florence is the "wrong" one. That means that Florence did not inherit. I wonder if the death certificates would help?

The 1911 address is 9 back of 9 Arley Place Tower Street.George's age is given as 34 which means the one in Albert Cottages is too old.
Janice

 

[Alberta]

A bit of discrepancy about ages if George died in 1913 he would have been 36 as Janice says also the will of George leaving money to Florence Lilian doesn't say daughter could it be sister?

 

[Astoness]

morning alberta and yes this is what i thought last night.. something does not add up....jane said she has an address for her george frederick wheeler b 1877 the address is albert cottages brougham st and the death i found in 1913 is for a george wheeler (no frederick) of albert cottages brougham st .. the burial record says he was born 1867 and that he died aged 46...the death and probate janice found is for george frederick wheeler died 1928 aged 51 leaving money to a florence wheeler..if as jane thinks florence is georges daughter and he left money to her she would have been 27..i think we will have to wait for jane to get back to us on this one..my guess is that there were 2 george wheelers (one with the middle name of frederick) and we seem to be following both of them...



hi janice yes i agree with you one of them is wrong...i also have the family in tower st on the 1911

lyn

 

[JaneMTaylor]

Well this has opened up a can of worms!

I have George Frederick Wheeler b1877. He was on the 1911 census with the family living at Tower Street. The age of 36 appears to confirm this.

His marriage on 4.12.1898 also states his age at 21 which calculates correctly.

I had originally thought he moved to Rowton House and then left money in a will to Florence (his daughter). However, it appears that this is the wrong George, so no inheritance.

 

[JaneMTaylor]

I also had an address of albert cottages, brougham street (attached). As this is where the 3 girls went I thought he may have took lodging close by. I have received a response from Sisters of Mercy (see below) and shows that they were admitted on 7th October 1912. But then this admission date is before Georges death in 1912. Unfortunately there is no further information from the Sisters of Mercy to say why the girls were admitted or where they went afterwards.

[FONT=&amp] In terms of specifics, I've consulted our original register relating to admission and discharge of children from St Joseph's [Union Sisters of Mercy archive ref GB1841/1/200/8/13]. I've found the following listed:[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Name Age Admitted[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Wheeler, Florence 11 October 7th 1912[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Wheeler, Doris 10 " " [/FONT] [FONT=&amp]Wheeler, Nellie 7 " "[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]Unfortunately there is no further information as to why they were admitted or even when they were discharged. These names and dates seem to fit with those you provided, except for the name of your grandmother - was she sometimes called 'Nellie'?[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Just to give you an idea of St Joseph's Home at this time, according to the paperwork of the Sisters, in June 1912 they had 101 children in the Home - 79 of these were from Boards of Guardians (mostly Birmingham but some Stourbridge, Worcester, Litchfield, Cardiff and Oxford). 22 of the children were not from the Guardians so presumably in these cases there was some kind of private arrangement come to between perhaps the families and the Sisters or through a priest. It is not clear what the situation was with the Wheelers, however if they did come to St Joseph's through the Boards of Guardians, it might be worth contacting Birmingham Archives to see if they have any relevant Boards of Guardians papers for Birmingham at this time that might give an indication of the circumstances of the Wheeler children before and/or after their time at St Joseph's. [/FONT]

Thinking back, I think that my Nan (Ellen) was sometimes referred to as Nellie or Nell. However, even more puzzling is that on her marriage certificate is says Helen.

On Florences marriage certificate it does not state that George is 'deceased' either. Not sure that this is relevant.


Your help is fantastic in unraveling this.
Jane

 

[Astoness]

hi jane well at least you know for sure now that florence and doris were at st josephs brougham st..

i am still puzzled as to when george died...as said before i found a burial for george wheeler b 1867 died aged 46 in 1913 address given albert cottages brougham st...

then we have the rowton house death for george frederick wheeler b 1877 died 1928 age 51 so the age is bang on and i reckon this is the correct death..

only my opinion but i think the death of george wheeler 1913 brougham st is just a coinsidence in names..

there is also a death for a lily wheeler b 1878 died 1952 birmingham aged 74....ref 9c 546

just out of interest what year did florence marry..

lyn

 

[mikejee]

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelly_(given_name)

Nelly, Nela, Nell, and Nellie are female given names, also used as nicknames, which are derived from the names Janelle, Helen, Ellen, Petronella, Chanelle and Cornelia.

 

[JaneMTaylor]

Hi Lyn

florence married William b tuzzio in jun 1933
ellen mary married john victor 11.04.1929
doris died 17.12.1926

 

[Astoness]

jane have you got florences marriage cert to look at to see what what she has put down as her fathers occupation

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

I have been thinking about this and agree with Lyn that the George in Brougham Street is just a coincidence and has been a red herring in this search. The one at Rowton House is more likely.
I found a Florence Lilian on the electoral roll in 1930 with abode as 77a Dymock Street but also listed as Ow of 25 Angelina Street.
Janice

 

[Astoness]

janice i think if this was my family search i would now have to think about taking a gamble and obtaining the death cert for the rowton house death as it may provide vital clues such as who if anyone was present at death as it could have been a family member..think i would also get the death cert for the lily wheeler b1878 died in 1952 aged 74 as the age is spot on for that as well...mind you im like a dog with a bone with my research...i wont give up until i have it sorted lol

lyn