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Missing Family members - Wheeler / Baker

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
A bit of discrepancy about ages if George died in 1913 he would have been 36 as Janice says also the will of George leaving money to Florence Lilian doesn't say daughter could it be sister?
 
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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
morning alberta and yes this is what i thought last night.. something does not add up....jane said she has an address for her george frederick wheeler b 1877 the address is albert cottages brougham st and the death i found in 1913 is for a george wheeler (no frederick) of albert cottages brougham st .. the burial record says he was born 1867 and that he died aged 46...the death and probate janice found is for george frederick wheeler died 1928 aged 51 leaving money to a florence wheeler..if as jane thinks florence is georges daughter and he left money to her she would have been 27..i think we will have to wait for jane to get back to us on this one..my guess is that there were 2 george wheelers (one with the middle name of frederick) and we seem to be following both of them...



hi janice yes i agree with you one of them is wrong...i also have the family in tower st on the 1911

lyn
 
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JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
Well this has opened up a can of worms!

I have George Frederick Wheeler b1877. He was on the 1911 census with the family living at Tower Street. The age of 36 appears to confirm this.

His marriage on 4.12.1898 also states his age at 21 which calculates correctly.

I had originally thought he moved to Rowton House and then left money in a will to Florence (his daughter). However, it appears that this is the wrong George, so no inheritance.
 

JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
I also had an address of albert cottages, brougham street (attached). As this is where the 3 girls went I thought he may have took lodging close by. I have received a response from Sisters of Mercy (see below) and shows that they were admitted on 7th October 1912. But then this admission date is before Georges death in 1912. Unfortunately there is no further information from the Sisters of Mercy to say why the girls were admitted or where they went afterwards.

[FONT=&amp] In terms of specifics, I've consulted our original register relating to admission and discharge of children from St Joseph's [Union Sisters of Mercy archive ref GB1841/1/200/8/13]. I've found the following listed:[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Name Age Admitted[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Wheeler, Florence 11 October 7th 1912[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Wheeler, Doris 10 " " [/FONT] [FONT=&amp]Wheeler, Nellie 7 " "[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]Unfortunately there is no further information as to why they were admitted or even when they were discharged. These names and dates seem to fit with those you provided, except for the name of your grandmother - was she sometimes called 'Nellie'?[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Just to give you an idea of St Joseph's Home at this time, according to the paperwork of the Sisters, in June 1912 they had 101 children in the Home - 79 of these were from Boards of Guardians (mostly Birmingham but some Stourbridge, Worcester, Litchfield, Cardiff and Oxford). 22 of the children were not from the Guardians so presumably in these cases there was some kind of private arrangement come to between perhaps the families and the Sisters or through a priest. It is not clear what the situation was with the Wheelers, however if they did come to St Joseph's through the Boards of Guardians, it might be worth contacting Birmingham Archives to see if they have any relevant Boards of Guardians papers for Birmingham at this time that might give an indication of the circumstances of the Wheeler children before and/or after their time at St Joseph's. [/FONT]

Thinking back, I think that my Nan (Ellen) was sometimes referred to as Nellie or Nell. However, even more puzzling is that on her marriage certificate is says Helen.

On Florences marriage certificate it does not state that George is 'deceased' either. Not sure that this is relevant.


Your help is fantastic in unraveling this.
Jane
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi jane well at least you know for sure now that florence and doris were at st josephs brougham st..

i am still puzzled as to when george died...as said before i found a burial for george wheeler b 1867 died aged 46 in 1913 address given albert cottages brougham st...

then we have the rowton house death for george frederick wheeler b 1877 died 1928 age 51 so the age is bang on and i reckon this is the correct death..

only my opinion but i think the death of george wheeler 1913 brougham st is just a coinsidence in names..

there is also a death for a lily wheeler b 1878 died 1952 birmingham aged 74....ref 9c 546

just out of interest what year did florence marry..

lyn
 
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JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
Hi Lyn

florence married William b tuzzio in jun 1933
ellen mary married john victor 11.04.1929
doris died 17.12.1926
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
jane have you got florences marriage cert to look at to see what what she has put down as her fathers occupation

lyn
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I have been thinking about this and agree with Lyn that the George in Brougham Street is just a coincidence and has been a red herring in this search. The one at Rowton House is more likely.
I found a Florence Lilian on the electoral roll in 1930 with abode as 77a Dymock Street but also listed as Ow of 25 Angelina Street.
Janice
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
janice i think if this was my family search i would now have to think about taking a gamble and obtaining the death cert for the rowton house death as it may provide vital clues such as who if anyone was present at death as it could have been a family member..think i would also get the death cert for the lily wheeler b1878 died in 1952 aged 74 as the age is spot on for that as well...mind you im like a dog with a bone with my research...i wont give up until i have it sorted lol

lyn
 
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JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
jane have you got florences marriage cert to look at to see what what she has put down as her fathers occupation

lyn

hi Lyn

not got Florence's marriage certificate just the index reference. On Ellen's in 1929 I think it reads as church metal worker
 

JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
janice i think if this was my family search i would now have to think about taking a gamble and obtaining the death cert for the rowton house death as it may provide vital clues such as who if anyone was present at death as it could have been a family member..think i would also get the death cert for the lily wheeler b1878 died in 1952 aged 74 as the age is spot on for that as well...mind you im like a dog with a bone with my research...i wont give up until i have it sorted lol

lyn

i have got George's death certificate on order. Did ask for Lily, but this was when I was told that this was a child. So realised that dates were wrong. May try the new date for Lily's death and marriage for florence
 

JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
janice i think if this was my family search i would now have to think about taking a gamble and obtaining the death cert for the rowton house death as it may provide vital clues such as who if anyone was present at death as it could have been a family member..think i would also get the death cert for the lily wheeler b1878 died in 1952 aged 74 as the age is spot on for that as well...mind you im like a dog with a bone with my research...i wont give up until i have it sorted lol

lyn

if this Lily wheeler is correct it could mean she didn't remarry. Or couldn't remarry as no trace of a divorce
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
thats right jane as i said earlier i think that after all this research my advise would be to order the 2 death certs as they may give you the information you need to confirm things as well as if anyone was present at death and who the informant of the death was...the ref you need for the death cert of lily who died in 1952 is 9c 546

lyn
 
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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi Lyn

not got Florence's marriage certificate just the index reference. On Ellen's in 1929 I think it reads as church metal worker

oh sorry jane its just that earlier on you said that on florences marr cert it did not say that george was deceased so i assumed you had the cert...

does it say father deceased on ellens marr cert

lyn
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
thats right jane as i said earlier i think that after all this research my advise would be to order the 2 death certs as they may give you the information you need to confirm things as well as if anyone was present at death and who the informant of the death was...the ref you need for the death cert of lily who died in 1952 is 9c 546

lyn
I agree Lyn - death certificates could prove very helpful here. I too like to get my teeth into a mystery - keep going until I get answers. I am puzzled by the "church metal worker" for George's occupation. Wonder if Jane could post a photo of the image in case it refers to his work at Rowton? I also wondered about George's will - if I am correct probate just grants the estate to the administrator and it might be interesting to see who he left things to. (Wills at https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate)

Janice
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
morning janice yes church metal worker sounds interesting...on the 1911 george is a brass dresser...on the 1901 i have him living in parliament st with lily cant quite make out his occ on that but its something tool trade..also noted on the 1901 that georges parents and siblings are living next door to him and lily one of georges brothers henry is a soldier with the 1st royal welsh fusilers so his army records maybe on ancestry if that would be of interest to jane

lyn
 
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Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
The occupation in the 1901 is Filer Edge tool trade.
the Edge tool trade had their own union 1911 in Chattaway street, 1923 ,284 Nechells park Road.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
George is described as a Brass Dresser on Eva's baptism record at St Stephen's 4 April 1909. The address on there is 5 back of 122 Tower Street.
On Florence's at the same church on 4 Sep 1901 he is a "filer" and I can't decipher the address apart from 2 back of......

Janice
 
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