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Missing Family members - Wheeler / Baker

JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
I am trying to find more information on my Gt Gran - Lily / Lillian / Lilian Wheeler (Nee Baker) She was born 20.05.1878 and married George Frederick Wheeler (DOB 19.02.1877) on 4.12.1898. They had 5 children in total as follows;
Arthur Frederick 1899-1900
Florence Lilian Wheeler 1901 - ?
Doris 1902-1926
Ellen (Helen) Mary 1904 -1992 (My Nan)
Eva Gertrude 1909-1911

I can find the family in Aston, Birmingham on the 1911 census, but then nothing!

Family history stories say that Florence, Doris and Ellen were bought up in a convent called St Josephs. I have found two listed (Brougham Street and Long Acre). I have emailed the Sisters at St Pauls who ran Long Acre, but they do not appear to have any information. I cannot find any contact details for St Josephs Home for Girls, 31 Brougham Street. It is interesting that G Wheeler, their dad is living in Brougham Street at a 'dwelling house', prior to being at Rowton House.

There is no trace of Lily, it was mentioned that she may have died in 1913, but I have asked for a copy death certificate from Birmingham who say that this relates to a child.

I can see Florence living at 77a Dymock Street, which coincidentally is where 'Tuzzio' lives, who I believe she goes on to marry

On the marriage certificate (1929) for Ellen it shows the address as 31 Grantham Road, but I cannot find out who else lived there

I am at a loss to find out more information from 1911 onwards, any help will be gratefully received for any of these family members.


Many thanks,

Jane
 

MWS

master brummie
There is a death registered for a Lily Wheeler in Birmingham, Dec qtr of 1952. Age is listed as 74.

It looks like John and Annie Stevenson lived at 31 Grantham Road (Sparkbrook) from 1912 to 1939.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi jane i think i can help a little bit as brougham st is my neck o the woods and i have studied the area quite a bit..

here is a map showing brougham st on it you will see st josephs and also the house of mercy which was a domestic training home for girls run by the nuns from st marys convent that is in hunters road (next to brougham st) as far as i am aware the convent hold all the records for st josephs and the house of mercy..

i visited st marys convent last year making an enquiry of my own and their records do not start until after the 1880s so you maybe lucky..if your rellies were bought up either in st josephs or the convert they may have the records you are looking for.

you need to email the convents archivist jenny...just say that linda from the birmingham history forum suggested you contact her...email address is

[email protected]

here is the brougham st map..neither st josephs or the house of mercy are still standing im afraid..if you save this map you will be able to zoom into it for a closer look or you can click on it 3 times to enlarge..hope this helps...i have also moved this thread to our surname interests section as you may get more response...

lyn
 

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Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
Florence married William b Tuzzio
children
Bernard
Anthony
Chriatina
Beryl
Roma
John
David

Florence Tuzzio died in 1958 age 56.
 

JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
There is a death registered for a Lily Wheeler in Birmingham, Dec qtr of 1952. Age is listed as 74.

It looks like John and Annie Stevenson lived at 31 Grantham Road (Sparkbrook) from 1912 to 1939.

Thank you MWS - I will see if I can get a copy of the death certificate and find out if this has any more clues.
 

JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
Hi Astoness, Thank you so much for all the information. I will start making further checks and email them as you suggest. I think I may see a little chink of light at the end of the tunnel.
 

JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
Dear Alberta

Thank you for the information. I will update my family tree and see what else links in. Where did you find this data as I have not been able to trace Florence through Ancestry very well.

Jane
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
Dear Alberta

Thank you for the information. I will update my family tree and see what else links in. Where did you find this data as I have not been able to trace Florence through Ancestry very well.

Jane

hello jane i maybe sticking my neck out here but i see more than a light at the end of the tunnel...beings as though you have florence doris and ellens dad at an address in brougham st i think it must be st josephs brougham st that they were brought up in....strange that you can find no definate death for lily but if as you suspect she died in 1913 that would explain why the children could have been looked after by the nuns as dad would have had to go out to work or just fell on hard times as rowton house was orginally for men with such problems it is a hotel now..just in case you have not found it on the net click on the link below..i shall do some digging around for you later on...oh what year was G Wheeler living in brougham st and how did you find this out..just trying to build up a picture of the family

https://www.workhouses.org.uk/RowtonBirmingham/


can you keep us updated please with any info that you may find...

all the best

lyn
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
I am not sure if you know this but George seems to have died in 1928 - there is a death record (born about 1877 and died Sep 1928 - Birmingham South, page 62 volume 6d).
Also a probate leaving just over £163 to Florence Lilian Wheeler a spinster. I am not sure if this is the right one but the name of Florence as well is a big coincidence. I think the address given is actually "Rowton House".
George Wheeler.jpg
Janice
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi janice well george did have a daughter florence lilian so you could be right...although having said that it does seem a lot to leave if he was living at rowton house..on the other hand could george have been working there and living in..

lyn
 
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JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
hello jane i maybe sticking my neck out here but i see more than a light at the end of the tunnel...beings as though you have florence doris and ellens dad at an address in brougham st i think it must be st josephs brougham st that they were brought up in....strange that you can find no definate death for lily but if as you suspect she died in 1913 that would explain why the children could have been looked after by the nuns as dad would have had to go out to work or just fell on hard times as rowton house was orginally for men with such problems it is a hotel now..just in case you have not found it on the net click on the link below..i shall do some digging around for you later on...oh what year was G Wheeler living in brougham st and how did you find this out..just trying to build up a picture of the family

https://www.workhouses.org.uk/RowtonBirmingham/


can you keep us updated please with any info that you may find...

all the best

lyn


Hi Lyn

I will keep you up to date. Just adding the Tuzzio family to Ancestry to see what comes up next. George Wheeler did die in 1928 and did leave money to Florence. It is a mystery as to why or how this was possible. There is another member of this forum (SheronB) who was looking for the same family - posting called 'Raised by Nuns', but he was not responding to my postings hence starting a new thread. Some think that he was working at Rowton, not just living there.

I found George living at 7 Albert Cottages, Brougham Street purely by accident. I was looking for 31 Brougham Street (St Josephs Home for Girls) and through a random Ancestry search found him. Therefore it seems likely that the girls went into the convent and he found lodgings nearby. This was in 1912, and also fits that his youngest daughter dies in 1911.

I did think that Lily dying in 1913 would be a reason, but that certificate is for a child, so no death date for her yet.

Many thanks,
Jane
 

pjmburns

master brummie
hi janice well george did have a daughter florence lilian so you could be right...although having said that it does seem a lot to leave if he was living at rowton house..on the other hand could george have been working there and living in..

lyn
I thought that but when I looked up the address and found Rowton House was roughly at that number in Alcester Street I wondered if perhaps he was a manager rather than a lodger? We need access to a Kelly's for that year as it lists the manager(at least it does in earlier volumes) but I don't have access to that date.

Janice
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
George Frederick Wheeler is listed on the electoral roll as being at Rowton house in 1925 and 1927, which is a long time for a non-manager
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
thanks mike...i think he must have worked there in some capacity and lived in especially taking into account the amount of money he left when he died...

jane if you look again at the map i posted for you you will see albert cottages on the opposite side of the street to st josephs

lyn
 

JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
thanks mike...i think he must have worked there in some capacity and lived in especially taking into account the amount of money he left when he died...

jane if you look again at the map i posted for you you will see albert cottages on the opposite side of the street to st josephs

lyn

This is fantastic progress. Many thanks to all. I am glad that this appears to be work related rather than hard times. How can I get this confirmed? Glad to see that George stayed close for awhile. If he moved to Rowton in 1925 this was 3 years before Ellen got married.

However I am still confused about Lily. Why did she leave the family and for this to cause the girls to go into the convent? Why did she not come forward when George died?

still a lot of questions but getting clearer.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi jane we love a mystery on this forum and only too glad to help...given that so far we cant find a death for lily in birmingham for around 1913 it could be she died after that and of course it may not have even been a birmingham death...i was going to suggest that maybe for what ever reason lily left george and the children and set up with someone else...things like this did happen and dont forget in close days to save face a more acceptable reason was made up if someone walked out on the family such as they told folk they had died..this is only my guess work of course..not sure who you would contact with regards to confirming if george actually did work within rowton house maybe someone on here will know...i am actually pinning a lot on you being able to find the records for the children at st josephs because there maybe something written down as to why they ended up there and what happened to their mother..dont give up though i shall have another dig around tomorrow..never know what may turn up

lyn
 
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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
jane take a deep breath.....it was not lily who died in 1913 it was george...just found his buriel record..

george wheeler

buried 1913 aston parish church which is also the church were he and lily married..

address given as 7 albert cottages brougham st...aged 46

so the one at rowton house is not your george wheeler and its looking likely that lily could have remarried either that or we need to look for her death under the name of wheeler after 1913..

lyn
 
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JaneMTaylor

knowlegable brummie
jane take a deep breath.....it was not lily who died in 1913 it was george...just found his buriel record..

george wheeler

buried 1913 aston parish church which is also the church were he and lily married..

address given as 7 albert cottages brougham st...aged 46

so the one at rowton house is not your george wheeler and its looking likely that lily could have remarried either that or we need to look for her death under the name of wheeler after 1913..

lyn


Now that makes more sense. But George did leave money to Florence not Lily so something may have happened. I have emailed St Mary's and will let you know what they say. I have one remaining living uncle (a son of Ellen) but unfortunately he does not have the full story either. He thinks that George and Lily used to 'tread the boards' and she kept staying out late. Deep breath taken on with the research. Many thanks
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi jane where do you have the family living on the 1911 census

lyn
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
If the "right" George died in 1913 then the one who left money to Florence is the "wrong" one. That means that Florence did not inherit. I wonder if the death certificates would help?

The 1911 address is 9 back of 9 Arley Place Tower Street.George's age is given as 34 which means the one in Albert Cottages is too old.
Janice
 
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