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Midland Red Bus Routes

A Sparks said:
I lived in Perry Barr on the 118 route but very rarely used it - if I remember correctly the fare was more than the Birmingham bus?
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There was a 'protective fare agreement' between the corporation and the Midland Red dating back to 1914, whereby the 'Red' would charge a higher fare for journeys totally within the city boundary and share it with the corporation. West Bromwich corporation could not agree to a similar scheme on the Soho Road routes (to West Bromwich, Wednesbury or Dudley) so passengers repaid at the B'ham / West Brom boundary, by the Hawthorns football ground. Receipts went to the corporation in whose area they were collected.
 
The first time I travelled on the 74 route to Dudley I was surprised to have to pay again at the city boundary. It was a good job that I had more money with me. I was about 11 or 12 years old at the time
I wondered what the reason was that West Bromwich did not agree? Maybe it was because they wanted trolley buses to replace the trams, and BCT did not.? Tit for Tat?
 
The options for trolleybuses came during the initial discussions about tram replacement on the Birmingham - West Bromwich - Dudley or Wednesbury corridor, but Birmingham had decided on tram replacement by motor bus to happen in the 1940s. Herr Hitler delayed that, but West Brom had its new depot built in Oak Lane, (which as well as the buses, housed all the other corporation vehicles, including dustcarts, ambulances, road repair vehicles - and even the Mayor's limousine!) and was designed to have an internal height allowing trolleybus overhead. It also had no internal roof-supporting pillars. Birmingham therefore wanted diesel buses and West Brom had no option to follow suit. I don't know for sure, but I assume the reason for 'rebooking at the boundary' was that the two sides could not agree how the takings should be split - often this was done by Mileage operated, but passenger loadings would be much heavier in Birmingham leading to an imbalance in takings. Even after the Corporation took over the previously privatelly owned route to Dudley and Wednesbury, the tramway 'Company' still ran through trams to other places in the black country from the city terminus outside Snow Hill Station, with "Black Country Through Car" painted on their sides.
 
As I have read it but it was so long ago that I do not know which book it was in. Birmingham took all the fares collected within the Birmingham city boundary and West Bromwich Corporation took all the fares collected outside the city boundary irrespective of which bus they were collected on. The conductors even had a different ticket rack for Birmingham and West Bromwich tickets in the days of the Bell Punch. When ticket machines came in this was not possible so I presume that they did the calculations from the conductors' waybills. I am not sure when through tickets became available. It could even have been on the formation of WMPTE.

The agreement called for the mileages of the buses to be equated which is why West Brom buses could be seen operating on the 72 route which ran from the City Centre to the Hawthorns from which they gained no revenue.

I had not heard about the proposal for trolley buses but the negotiations on the Birmingham-Smethwick-Dudley route must have been going on at the same time so that would have been another factor in the Birmingham Corporation's negotiations.
 
In 1957 I was a conductor on the RED, working out of Sutton garage. A service that we did, hasn't been mentioned. When doing a 119 (Birmingham to Great Barr-Scott Arms) and the 118, (Birmingham to Walsall, via the main road) we had to do a 105. Now this ran Scott Arms to ALMA STREET, in Aston, and hung up in Alma Street, awaiting the shift end at 6pm of The Crocodile Works, in Summer Lane. Then running back to Great Barr, and then back onto the 119 service into city. Trivia from 64 years ago !
 
Gerrymandering, not trivia but history, two years ago, I visited a friend in Birmingham whilst up there and we were discussing the 100 routes out kofSuttton and the one we could not remember was the 105. As I said history, not trivia. By the way when did you start at Sutton and were you ever on the 107?
Bob
 
Hi Bob, yes, 107's and Main Roads, 102, Clarence Road/Hill Hook into Birmingham, 111, Roughly, also Tower Estates, then Brum, X12 and 112's yes all of them matey.
 
Bob Davis said:
We may have met, I used 107/9/13 and main road routes up until 1959
Bob
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Hi Bob, I came off the Red in 1959, and went into the army, as a career soldier (Coldstream Guards) and then after I came back into civilian life, I went back to Sutton garage, as a driver, and did it all over again. All the same Red routes, plus some horrible WMPTE turns into Birmingham and out to Kingsbury/Chelmsley Wood, and other places. In the main, I loved it, especially when the Volvo Ailsa came to us from Oldbury garage, a lovely bus. Here's a shot of the old garage, with a Midland Red painted in WMPTE colours; showing the wrong route number for that route, should read 114. Many happy days there Bob.
 

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Takes me back to 1963 when we had catch a Red from B,ham bus station to Hendesford where we were refitting a Dewhurst shop, the first bus went at 7.30 AM and arrived around 9 oclock although we were supposed to start work at 8 it was impossible. Getting back we had to leave early to catch the bus which went around 4 oclock but took longer because it hit the rush hour traffic
 
I have been adding images inherited from my paternal grandfather, William Tolley (everyone called him Bill ) I have several books of photographs and a book detailing his life from a kid born in 1918 thoigh ww2 and beyond including his days as a Bus driver and then onto an abmulance driver. He has books he made himself documenting the buses and i thought it might interest some people so posting some here. please get in touch if you want any more ( i have loads)PXL_20211205_115251467.jpgPXL_20211205_115335703.jpg

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The photographs are really interesting, though , again, I am not particularly into buses. Please feel free to add more. It is all more information into the history of the area
 
May I add my congratulations on this posting, regarding the Midland ReD. As a conductor and then a driver, I enjoyed reading the old routes, and the pictures are quite spectacular. May I suggest that Wythall Museum of Buses would love to have these pictures and their stories in the Museum, and you should get in touch with them. On a personal basis, it took me back to when I was a young conductor, training at Sheepcote Street, training school, and then on to Sutton Garage, where was both a conductor and then a driver. Happy happy memories. Thank you so much. Gerry.
 
The route 105, which I believe followed the same route as the 114 through Falcon Lodge, always turned into Penns Lane from Walmley to Wylde Green but certainly in the late 60s early 70s, the early morning service terminated in Harman Road, Wylde Green via Orphanage Road. This wasn’t the original route which turned from Penns Lane directly onto the Birmingham Road at Wylde Green The normal route was from Penns Lane and then along the Birmingham Road from Wylde Green joining the 114 route from the Kingsbury Road. I remember the 105 being an infrequent service.
 
As I mentioned before, I was at Sutton garage as a driver in the seventies. the 105 was a listed turn. I remember doing that service on a scorching hot day in 1976, in a "D-9" the bus windows all open, my cab windows all open, including the big one over the engine, and it was so hot, with standing loads from Sutton to The Yenton every trip; not a cat in hells chance of keeping to time, every stop was made, and it was great to hand over at South Parade.....Happy days though, I loved my time with the "Midland ReD". Pictured the cab of a "D-9".
 

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Grea said:
That cab is so primitive, how on earth did you manage a whole shift in it.
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Yes, by later standards it was, but, back then the bus was up to date, with semi-auto box, 10 litre unit (Cummings) a decent brake system, and so easy to drive. I loved it, out of all the buses I had to drive, it was a wonderful piece of engineering.....Then, along came four Volvo Ailsa's from Oldbury garage, they were something else. turbo charged, 14 feet high ( D-9 was 12 feet high) and so comfortable. These came along AFTER the WMPTE take-over, so weren't really Midland ReD, but, we all still felt that we were, and always would be Midland ReD crews at Sutton. Here's me at the wheel of the Volvo....Corporation Street. .
 

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Gerry Cannell said:
As I mentioned before, I was at Sutton garage as a driver in the seventies. the 105 was a listed turn. I remember doing that service on a scorching hot day in 1976, in a "D-9" the bus windows all open, my cab windows all open, including the big one over the engine, and it was so hot, with standing loads from Sutton to The Yenton every trip; not a cat in hells chance of keeping to time, every stop was made, and it was great to hand over at South Parade.....Happy days though, I loved my time with the "Midland ReD". Pictured the cab of a "D-9".
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Do you remember a conductor, Derek Brooks at Sutton garage?
 
Gerry Cannell said:
Yes, by later standards it was, but, back then the bus was up to date, with semi-auto box, 10 litre unit (Cummings) a decent brake system, and so easy to drive. I loved it, out of all the buses I had to drive, it was a wonderful piece of engineering.....Then, along came four Volvo Ailsa's from Oldbury garage, they were something else. turbo charged, 14 feet high ( D-9 was 12 feet high) and so comfortable. These came along AFTER the WMPTE take-over, so weren't really Midland ReD, but, we all still felt that we were, and always would be Midland ReD crews at Sutton. Here's me at the wheel of the Volvo....Corporation Street. .
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What was the route of the 42 from New Oscott to Erdington?
Bob
 
Anyone remember the Fishermen Special to Tewkesbury very early in the morning at week-ends from near New Street Station, fishing crealls pilled up along the centre of the bus, no health & safety in those days. Many a tall tale told on the way back.
 
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