Midland Red Bus Routes

[silverwheels2]

I have been racking my brains trying to remember the BMMO routes from Sutton to Birmingham and Sutton Surburban services. I remember S67, S76 to Six Ways from the Beggars bush via Court Lane & Goosemoore Lane respectively, same bus everyhalf hour alternate journeys and the S73 which ran down Chester Road to the Yenton, then went to Boldmere, came back and went back to either New Oscott or Parson & Clerk. The 107, 109 & 113 were old friends as they all went through New Oscott. 110, 112 were for Lichfield and Tamworth, not quite sure which was which and the X99 in the single deck red roofed GHAs was also a regular school holiday trip. S73 to the Yenton and then the X99, but coming back as the S73, S76 and S67 finished at 8.00 pm, sometimes meant a journey on to either six ways for the 11 and 5a or Aston Cross for the 3x Tram and the 5a. I wonder how many 13 to 15 year olds with nothing to do in August would do that now? However point of enquiry what were the destinations for the 101 to 106, 108. was there a 111? and thro to 117 (I travelled 118 & 119 regularly). E'en as I make this pitiful plea, I know that someone has what I do not have in my Midland Onibus collection the route details. People writing about the Midland Red never put rote details in the books.
Bob

 

[silverwheels2]

You missed the S61 from Digbeth to Gibbons road, via Mere Green, Sutton Coldfield. 15mins past the hour. Number changed in 101 and became the 103 to Roughly, an extra 7 stops to the Roughly terminal at Slade road and Weeford road.

silverwheels2. bus route 104 Cannock to New Street via Norton Canes, Brownhills, A452 to Hardwick Arms, then Streetly Stn Streetly Lane to Four Oaks, Sutton Coldfield. We would then travel directly to Bham behind the 110 from Tamworth. Yenton sixways Erdington Aston past HP Sauce factory ABC Studios?? into Bull Ring bus station. I last drove this route in 1965.Forgot to mention where the cigarette packets were on the road.!!!!!

You missed the S61 from Digbeth to Gibbons road, via Mere Green, Sutton Coldfield. 15mins past the hour. Number changed in 1966 and became the 103 to Roughly, an extra 7 stops to the Roughly terminal at Slade road and Weeford road.

 

[RobT]

Can anyone put a date on these Route Guides please?

 

[Radiorails]

They look late 1920's early 1930's to me, but I can't give a closer date. Someone will I am sure.
The 'motor' services was an older style of advertising description. In the later nineteen thirties and post WW2 the Red did not use the word motor as far as I know in adverts.

 

[DavidGrain]

I agree with Alan (Radiorails) that they are definitely pre WWII. They could even date to the period immediately after WWI because under the 1914 agreement with Birmingham Corporation when the Midland Red transferred its services in Birmingham to the Corporation, the numbers below 100 were reserved for the Corporation and above 100 for the Midland Red.

I do not recognise any of these route numbers. For example I have always known the Bewdley service as 133 and 127 as Birmingham to Oldbury via Tat Bank.

One Midland Red route number which still exists after more than 100 years is the no. 9, Birmingham to Bearwood, then to Quinton and now extended to Stourbridge taking over Midland Red route 130.

 

[perry commoner]

As a youngster living close to the 107 route, I recall a BMMO double decker bus type with a front sweeping bodywork from the upstairs windows to above the driver cab window. Presumably one of BMMO designs dating from the 1930s. I have always kept my eye open for a pic of this type but so far without success.

 

[RobT]

Here are some more Route Guide Nos from the same period
456 & 457 Leicester to Welford
500 Leicester to Ashby and Burton
504 Loughborough, Shepshed & Coalville
503 & 526 Nuneaton and Licester via Market Bosworth
525 Nuneaton, Hinkley, Barwell, Shilton, Leicester

All are for MIDLAND "RED" MOTOR SERVICES

All are marked on rear
Chief Traffic Offices:
Bearwood, Birmingham
Telephone 3300 Midland
O.C.Power Traffic Manager

 

[RobT]

As a youngster living close to the 107 route, I recall a BMMO double decker bus type with a front sweeping bodywork from the upstairs windows to above the driver cab window. Presumably one of BMMO designs dating from the 1930s. I have always kept my eye open for a pic of this type but so far without success.

Is it this one an SOS "DD"?

Photograph: Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co. (Midland Red) SOS “DD” / “DD(RE)” HA8016

Photos below courtesy of BMMO marketing & publicity

 

[DavidGrain]

These were were later classified as REDD (Rear Entrance Double-Decker) and FEDD (Front entrance Double Decker). Later FEDDs had a flatter front than the one shown in the photo posted by RobT.

I think that there were only 50 REDDs built and I don't think I ever saw one. When I was little the FEDDs were the standard double deckers on my local routes although there were rear entrance wartime buses including the Guy Arabs on the Wolverhampton Road 125 service and then the D5s came along. The D5Bs were the first with the platform doors at the rear.

 

[Radiorails]

I saw many of these ugly looking vehicles. Despite their acknowledged experimentation and progressive developments Midland Red did possess some quite quaint looking vehicles pre WW2.
There were two similar batches of fifty buses that were double deck, the first were HA 8001 - HA 8050 (1370 - 1419*) based on a prototype HA 7329 (1319) of 1931. They were spilt between four body builders delivered 1932/33 and were rear entrance. They survived until 1948 - 50. Eight were built for the Potteries Motor Traction.
The second fifty, HA 9401 - HA 9450 (1536 - 1585) of 1934. The prototype was HA 9400 (1446), These were front entrance.
They lasted until 1848 - 1953. * Fleet numbers allocated during WW2

 

[Radiorails]

Returning to the thread of Midland Red publicity, after WW1, in 1919, James Savage, who had worked for BET in London, became the architect of Midland Red's publicity. He was private secretary to Orlando Cecil Power, born in Kings Heath 1879. OCP was well known and liked in the city and held his Midland Red post for 44 years. He died in 1943 at a transport meeting in London. The Red was great at publicity, timetables, such as the ones in this thread, posters and newspaper ads were the order of the day. Posters encouraging day trips and longer tours were very much in evidence at any depot or office and timetables were available in quite a few places where shops acted as agents, often for parcels, of Midland Red. Savage was also responsible for bus advertising and in house magazines. Children were not forgotten - they were tomorrows passengers - there were puzzles and other items produced for them. Maps and window displays were another feature. There is far more to the publicity side of Midland Red that I have mentioned. I bet many here have been on a Midland Red tour or holiday, probably inspired by one of the those many posters. Their slogan "All Over The Midlands" meant something to many people, as did the later "Friendly Midland Red".
London Transport have a great Museum and produced and publicised many books, regarding their design and publicity and given fame to people and transport items that worked for and served the capitals transport systems..
A pity Birmingham, apart from the Transport Museum at Wythall, seems to have overlooked the tremendous role played in the city and Midlands by Midland Red. It does seem to me that in the incessant drive for city modernity, much of the history that actually made Birmingham world famous - most of which seems to have gone - is not catered for in its Heritage. What other city is there in the UK, that was so dependant on canals for its expansion and progress in the past and which made the place the "City of 1000 trades" but does not have a canal museum. Canalside homes seem more important.

 

[RobT]

Can anyone put a date on these Route Guides please?View attachment 136596View attachment 136597

I have been told by the Midland Red Website that they were issued between
16 May 1925 and before 11 Feb 1928.
Did anyone else notice the interesting pattern around the titles... I bet they stopped using that by 1939 ?

 

[Radiorails]

The design, often called a version of the Greek Key, is very ancient. The link following shows that is was a good symbol for millennia - until the 1930's when it became quite something else.

How the world loved the swastika - until Hitler stole it

In the Western world the swastika is synonymous with fascism, but historically it was used as a symbol of good fortune in almost every culture in the world.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Dave89]

Hi,

I have a copy of the Midland Red Birmingham Area timetable for June 1970 UFN complete
with its map in pretty good condition which it seems a shame to recycle.

If anyone would like it, I will be happy to send it FOC and post paid.

If more than one person is interested then the usual hat will apply

Kind regards
Dave

 

[JoeF712]

Does anyone remember the Midland Red parcel service? I used it quite a lot in the early/mid 70s. I worked for a shop with branches throughout the West Mids and we would use it to send parcels from one shop to another. It seems unlikely now but I would take a parcel to the Midland Red bus station in Birmingham which would be put on a normal service bus and collected at the far end by the addressee. I don't think there was any personal delivery and it only operated from (I think) bus station to bus station. Typically the whole process only took a few hours and I seem to remember it was relatively cheap.
I also recall when I lived in Chelmsley Wood and worked in Sutton Coldfield that I would catch the 166 Midland Red bus from Timberley Lane, Castle Bromwich to the Parade in Sutton Coldfield. On one occasion (probably in summer 1975) the Midland Red drivers went on strike and, in consequence, I would have to walk to the Clock Garage every day for a week in order to get a WMPTE bus to work. One particularly hot day I'd got a blister on my heel and thought I would break my journey with a cooling pint at the Timberley pub. I was not amused when I discovered that the Ansell's Brewery dray men had gone on strike and the pub had run out of beer. I think I started to rethink my attitude to trade unions on that day.

 

[DavidGrain]

I remember the Midland Red parcel service although I never used it but did once or twice see parcels under the stairs. I used to collect timetable books and in the details it said tht you could use the bus to post a letter in the nearest large town. You handed the stamped letter to the conductor with a penny and get a penny ticket in exchange.

I used to know some one who worked in the Midland Red offices in Bearwood and one day he found a lot of papers being throw away which he looked through and kept for himself. One of the items he showed ws the Midland Red company accounts for, I think, 1938. The accounts of the Parcels department were separate on handwritten sheets. The largest expense was fodder for the horses, followed by wages.

 

[nickcc101]

The parcel delivery service was also carried out by many other bus companies in other parts of the country. Western National here in the south west we’re certainly one of the companies offering this service.

 

[Alf Rogers]

I recall reading, elsewhere on this site, that Midland Red buses- the S22 single deckers especially- were capable of cruising on the motorways at 100mph plus. Now, if a Midland Red could have whisked me back home from the Smoke at that speed I'd have been first in line!

 

[Eric Gibson]

I don't think they actually ever did 100mph in service Alf although my brother who did some of the trial runs reckoned he did in the trials.

 

[Alf Rogers]

I don't think they actually ever did 100mph in service Alf although my brother who did some of the trial runs reckoned he did in the trials.

Thanks for the reply Eric. Yes, I'm sure 100mph was not reached in normal service- one can imagine how terrified some passengers would have been, especially if they'd only wanted to nip to the shops! Perhaps, in the early days of the M1, before speed limits for buses came in, and when traffic was much lighter? Did your brother conduct the speed trials on the public road, or private race track, or airport runways? I read that the buses had 8 or 10 litre turbo diesels, with lots of power for their time. Regards, Alf.

 

[DavidGrain]

Actually it was well known that the CM5T, the first motorway coach could do 100 mph on the motorway. They used to do Birmingham to London in 2 hours 15 minutes and that was before the M6 was built so they went on the A45 Coventry ByPass and the M45.

There was the notorious incident when 4 of them drove abreast on the M1 at 100mph, 3 in the lanes and one on the hard shoulder. All four drivers where 'on the carpet' literally, the next morning in D M Sinclair's office.

There is another story that one driver claimed 117 mph in neutral downhill near Luton.

Some of the coaches were later down graded to buses especially in Worcestershire and I was once overtaken when I was doing 65mph on the Frankley uphill section of the M5 when one of those on the Express X43 Worcester to Birmingham service went past me very fast.

When there was an anniversary run a few years ago, 2 preserved coaches accompanied a National Express and they had to stop to allow the service coach to catch up.

 

[Lloyd]

When there was an anniversary run a few years ago, 2 preserved coaches accompanied a National Express and they had to stop to allow the service coach to catch up.

I was the driver of the CM6T on that day, and I did tell the National Express driver that I felt sorry for him, as his brand new coach was limited to 60MPH! When I drove them in service, one night I was stopped by the police (when they caught me!) for doing 106MPH. "Do you know how fast you were going?" the one asked (shouted at) me. "No", I replied. "The speedo only goes up to 80!"

 

[Eric Gibson]

Thanks for the reply Eric. Yes, I'm sure 100mph was not reached in normal service- one can imagine how terrified some passengers would have been, especially if they'd only wanted to nip to the shops! Perhaps, in the early days of the M1, before speed limits for buses came in, and when traffic was much lighter? Did your brother conduct the speed trials on the public road, or private race track, or airport runways? I read that the buses had 8 or 10 litre turbo diesels, with lots of power for their time. Regards, Alf.

My brother did the some of the trial runs on the Birmingham to London via the M1 when it was first opened and unrestricted Alf.

 

[Eric Gibson]

I don't know if this site has been mentioned.

http://midlandred.net/vehicles/fleetinfo.php?type=c5&operator=bmmo&page=overview

 

[DavidGrain]

Look out for this next Monday 14th June at 18.15. A Talk on the History of the Midland Red by Roger Torode to the Friends of the London Transport Museum. The video will remain avialable on You Tube if you cannot see it at the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhurK-33zW8
I met Roger Torode a few years ago. He started his career as a conductor at Kidderminster and ended up running London Transport Buses.

 

[Dave P]

I remember my dad telling me years ago that he was testing for Midland Red and indeed had in excess of 100mph out of a Carlisle experimental coach! Also got stopped by the police on the A34 on his way back from Walsall on the 118 route as they had clocked him at over 50mph in a D9 (in service!) on the downhill dual carriageway section between the Scott Arms and The Broadway. I spent hours on a 118 in my youth with dad driving.

 

[A Sparks]

I lived in Perry Barr on the 118 route but very rarely used it - if I remember correctly the fare was more than the Birmingham bus?

 

[Dave P]

I lived in Perry Barr on the 118 route but very rarely used it - if I remember correctly the fare was more than the Birmingham bus?

From memory I think that you are correct, also remember that there were less bus stops.

 

[DavidGrain]

I lived in Perry Barr on the 118 route but very rarely used it - if I remember correctly the fare was more than the Birmingham bus?

Birmingham Corporation and Midland Red had a no competition agreement dating from 1914 which said that Midland Red had to charge higher fares on journeys inside the city boundary and the Corporation could not operate outside the city boundary. This did not apply on the Dudley Road routes as that was a separate agreement following the abandonment of the trams on that route and the replacement of the trams with a joint Corporation/Midland Red bus service. It also did not apply on the Hagley Road West from Bearwood to Quinton as that road was the actual city boundary.

 

[nickcc101]

I lived in Perry Barr on the 118 route but very rarely used it - if I remember correctly the fare was more than the Birmingham bus?

I used to catch the 51/52 into town from the Perry Avenue stop for 3 years from 1960 unless I was late then I would catch the 118 but had to go without my tomato dip from the cafe in Ryland st if I did.