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Midland Red Bus Routes

Pedrocut said:
From Black Country Remembered, by Douglas, Alton.


View attachment 174488
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This model was known as the D5. A later version known as the D5B was the first Midland Red buses to have doors on the rear platform.

See correction from Radiorails below. These buses were class AD2 which had bodies designed by Midland Red and therefore were similar to the bodies of the D5. My mistake for not checking.
 
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Pedrocut said:
From Black Country Remembered, by Douglas, Alton.


View attachment 174488
Click to expand...
These buses were actually classed as AD2. Registrations JHA1 - JHA 99, Fleet numbers 3100 - 3199. They were an AEC Regent II with AEC 7.7 LITRE engines. The first 50 has bodies by Brush the second 50 had Metro Cammell bodies. The Brush deliveries commenced in 1948, the Metro Cammell were delivered a year later. They were 7'6" wide whereas the future D5's, commencing in 1949, were 8 ft. wide.
 
Radiorails said:
These buses were actually classed as AD2. Registrations JHA1 - JHA 99, Fleet numbers 3100 - 3199. They were an AEC Regent II with AEC 7.7 LITRE engines. The first 50 has bodies by Brush the second 50 had Metro Cammell bodies. The Brush deliveries commenced in 1948, the Metro Cammell were delivered a year later. They were 7'6" wide whereas the future D5's, commencing in 1949, were 8 ft. wide.
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The windscreens on the AD2, D5 and D5B types were too low for drivers to see far ahead, and their size had to be increased by refitting the upper (opening) part a bit higher and enlanging the lower part, which therefore needed new glass. Here's a picture illustrating what was done.

AD2 Brush official windscreen modification.jpg
 
DavidGrain said:
Actually it was well known that the CM5T, the first motorway coach could do 100 mph on the motorway. They used to do Birmingham to London in 2 hours 15 minutes and that was before the M6 was built so they went on the A45 Coventry ByPass and the M45.

There was the notorious incident when 4 of them drove abreast on the M1 at 100mph, 3 in the lanes and one on the hard shoulder. All four drivers where 'on the carpet' literally, the next morning in D M Sinclair's office.

There is another story that one driver claimed 117 mph in neutral downhill near Luton.

Some of the coaches were later down graded to buses especially in Worcestershire and I was once overtaken when I was doing 65mph on the Frankley uphill section of the M5 when one of those on the Express X43 Worcester to Birmingham service went past me very fast.

When there was an anniversary run a few years ago, 2 preserved coaches accompanied a National Express and they had to stop to allow the service coach to catch up.
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“Midland Red built its CM5 class in 1959 to operate Birmingham-London express services on the new M1 motorwav. Thev had 8 litre
turbocharged underfloor engines, and were capable of 85mph. The coaches seen here were CMSTs with 34-seat bodies which reatured toilet accommodation.”

(The classic buses by Booth, Gavin.)

IMG_2721.jpeg
 
Bob Davis said:
I have been racking my brains trying to remember the BMMO routes from Sutton to Birmingham and Sutton Surburban services. I remember S67, S76 to Six Ways from the Beggars bush via Court Lane & Goosemoore Lane respectively, same bus everyhalf hour alternate journeys and the S73 which ran down Chester Road to the Yenton, then went to Boldmere, came back and went back to either New Oscott or Parson & Clerk. The 107, 109 & 113 were old friends as they all went through New Oscott. 110, 112 were for Lichfield and Tamworth, not quite sure which was which and the X99 in the single deck red roofed GHAs was also a regular school holiday trip. S73 to the Yenton and then the X99, but coming back as the S73, S76 and S67 finished at 8.00 pm, sometimes meant a journey on to either six ways for the 11 and 5a or Aston Cross for the 3x Tram and the 5a. I wonder how many 13 to 15 year olds with nothing to do in August would do that now? However point of enquiry what were the destinations for the 101 to 106, 108. was there a 111? and thro to 117 (I travelled 118 & 119 regularly). E'en as I make this pitiful plea, I know that someone has what I do not have in my Midland Onibus collection the route details. People writing about the Midland Red never put rote details in the books.
Bob
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Hi Bob - I've only just seen this so I imagine others have answered it properly, but I remember a service 111 being introduced quite late on (1960s) by Midland Red, i.e. pre-WMPTE. It ran from New Street to "Sutton Circular", presumably via Erdington etc. I remember reading once that originally BMMO didn't number services with three identical digits because that wouldn't work with the old stencil numbers (i.e. before route number blinds were introduced). So 111 was once of the first route numbers of that kind to be introduced. Somebody will probably correct me if that's incorrect!

John
 
John Merrick said:
Hi Bob - I've only just seen this so I imagine others have answered it properly, but I remember a service 111 being introduced quite late on (1960s) by Midland Red, i.e. pre-WMPTE. It ran from New Street to "Sutton Circular", presumably via Erdington etc. I remember reading once that originally BMMO didn't number services with three identical digits because that wouldn't work with the old stencil numbers (i.e. before route number blinds were introduced). So 111 was once of the first route numbers of that kind to be introduced. Somebody will probably correct me if that's incorrect!

John
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The pre war buses used metal stencils for route numbers, but there were only 2 of each number in the box housing them so 111, 222, 333 etc did not exist. The only exception was for 6 and 9, where one stencil could be used for either and there were three of them so 666 or 999 was possible. There were also individual stencils that said 'PR'. 'IVA', ;TE' and 'GA', 'RA', 'GE' which had obvious uses. Local area routes had a letter preceding, so some letters were included as well - 'B' in Banbury & Birmingham, 'D' in Dudley, 'S' in Shrewsbury & Sutton, for instance. Leicester had 'L' but some photos show an upside down '7' was sometimes used.
 
Lloyd said:
The pre war buses used metal stencils for route numbers, but there were only 2 of each number in the box housing them so 111, 222, 333 etc did not exist. The only exception was for 6 and 9, where one stencil could be used for either and there were three of them so 666 or 999 was possible. There were also individual stencils that said 'PR'. 'IVA', ;TE' and 'GA', 'RA', 'GE' which had obvious uses. Local area routes had a letter preceding, so some letters were included as well - 'B' in Banbury & Birmingham, 'D' in Dudley, 'S' in Shrewsbury & Sutton, for instance. Leicester had 'L' but some photos show an upside down '7' was sometimes used.
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Hi guys, just joining in here, as an EX-Driver on Midland Red then WMPTE out of Sutton Garage, I remember the pre-fix letters as; SN on the blinds. I seem to recall them being lower cse as in : sn. Am I right folks? Thanks Gerry.
 
Gerry Cannell said:
Hi guys, just joining in here, as an EX-Driver on Midland Red then WMPTE out of Sutton Garage, I remember the pre-fix letters as; SN on the blinds. I seem to recall them being lower cse as in : sn. Am I right folks? Thanks Gerry.
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I remember them as uppercase but one letter above the other on the left side of the destination blinds to show the garage to which the bus was allocated, SN being Sutton, BD Bearwood. OY Oldbury, DH Digbeth, DY Dudley etc.
 
Lloyd said:
The pre war buses used metal stencils for route numbers, but there were only 2 of each number in the box housing them so 111, 222, 333 etc did not exist. The only exception was for 6 and 9, where one stencil could be used for either and there were three of them so 666 or 999 was possible. There were also individual stencils that said 'PR'. 'IVA', ;TE' and 'GA', 'RA', 'GE' which had obvious uses. Local area routes had a letter preceding, so some letters were included as well - 'B' in Banbury & Birmingham, 'D' in Dudley, 'S' in Shrewsbury & Sutton, for instance. Leicester had 'L' but some photos show an upside down '7' was sometimes used.
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This was why the three bus routes operated jointly with West Bromwich Corporation were numbered 220, 221 and 252
 
DavidGrain said:
I remember them as uppercase but one letter above the other on the left side of the destination blinds to show the garage to which the bus was allocated, SN being Sutton, BD Bearwood. OY Oldbury, DH Digbeth, DY Dudley etc.
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You are correct, my memory isn't what it was. Thanks. Gerry
 
Being primarily a BCT fan I always though BMMO had a few antiquated practices such as stencils and cords instead of bell pushes.
Of course traveling around when in the RAF showed that they were not alone. ;)
 
I always thought London were really antiquated with bell ropes even on the Routemasters long after Midland Red. London's Gibson ticket machines looked like something barely out of the Bell Punch days.
 
DavidGrain said:
I always thought London were really antiquated with bell ropes even on the Routemasters long after Midland Red. London's Gibson ticket machines looked like something barely out of the Bell Punch days.
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The advantage of the rope (Walsall used them as well) was they were wherever the need was - no looking up & down the bus (above the windows on BCT, in the ceiling for Midland Red) to find one!
 
Lloyd said:
The advantage of the rope (Walsall used them as well) was they were wherever the need was - no looking up & down the bus (above the windows on BCT, in the ceiling for Midland Red) to find one!
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I noticed on the Walsall trolleybuses, and it is a long time since I was on a Walsall trollybus, that the rope only reached to the top of the stairs, presumably to ensure that the conductor had to have direct visual contact with the platform rather than relying on the mirror.
 
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