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"midland Journey" Film 1947

Phil

Gone, but not forgotten.
Just over two minutes into this journey and I hear the first mistake, the commentator and writer a Mr E V H Emmett makes his first mistake when he describes Cannon Hill Park as "Aston Park" I wonder if he describes Hyde Park as Green Park when describing London. At this pont I switched off.
 

Phil

Gone, but not forgotten.
Lyn

I know I shouldn't judge a whole film by one error, but things like this really annoy me it's like when I see a wrongly titled photo of Birmingham I get annoyed. How many thousands people having viewed this film and who have never visited Birmingham or even Brummies who have never visited either park now believe that Cannon Hill Park is Aston Park. If people are going to make money from Birmingham then they should at least check up what they are saying is factual.
 

Radiorails

master brummie
Just over two minutes into this journey and I hear the first mistake, the commentator and writer a Mr E V H Emmett makes his first mistake when he describes Cannon Hill Park as "Aston Park" I wonder if he describes Hyde Park as Green Park when describing London. At this pont I switched off.
There is so much that has been done in the past and since that are poorly researched. I think the experience that Phil mentions is common to so many short films/documentaries.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
phil i agree with you entirely ..always said if we are going to promote history then lets get it right and if we dont as in the case of photo locations then hopefully someone will correct us i shall go and look at that error later..on baby sitting duties all afternoon so i cant concentrate at the min:D

lyn
 

Phil

Gone, but not forgotten.
Ingleton,

I have a good life thank-you for your concerns, if it were just this film it wouldn't make much difference, but I could point out very many instances of the same sort of thing, I can only repeat " if people are going to make money out of Birmingham, then they should at least check up what they are saying is factual". Would you be happy if your children or grandchildren were taught history in such a slipshod way?
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hello ingleton and from myself also many thanks for your concerns about my life..its great and i have spent 10 happy and informative years on this forum receiving a lot of help with grateful thanks...for most of us on here we take the history of birmingham very serious that is why we are so popular and where possible we like to get it right...say for instance you were really into your family ancestry and were looking for a photograph of the not just the street that you were born in but the actual house and someone posted one for you...then as so many of us have done we have had a copy made and framed it...then a few years down the line you find out that the location of the photo was not correct bang goes the joy....we are not being picky or even having a go as everyone is open to human error but for the sake of our history we just like to not only read true info but also give it....
 
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Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
Agree Phil and Lyn. Important to have accuracy. All the same, a useful film to see Birmingham before 1960s developments. Thanks for posting Lyn, one I missed. Viv.
 

badpenny

Deleted Upon Request
It's a good piece of film, you can turn the commentary off, i thought it was rather cheesy but then they all were then.
 

Radiorails

master brummie
It should be accepted that the name of this board is Birmingham History Forum, it is not something like Facebook, or similar, where, it appears, so I am told, much guesswork and conjecture is frequent in postings.
As many will know I make observations about the city's former transport systems. I rely on memory initially but do check archive material and books to ensure accuracy. When researching I was taught to verify my sources and usually look at two different records at my disposal. On the few occasions where I have made erroneous comments I usually rectify or delete them. I believe and I know many others will agree that it is of great importance to have accurate information posted here. I am sure the greater proportion of users of this place - and those who come here for answers - know full well that much of what is posted is usually accurate, that is why new members find it so helpful for the most part. Any inaccuracies are usually pointed out pretty quickly so hopefully those wishing to further their interest in Birmingham (and surrounding area) history should feel confident about what they find and read.
The film mentioned was back in 1947, which may explain a deficiency. Until that time, after WW2, much information and not just military matters, was held back from publication. For instance during WW2 certain items recorded in the financial reports of the cities transport services - such as trams and buses destroyed by enemy action and the location, for instance, was suppressed as it was considered helpful to the enemy. Eventually, in 1946, the missing facts were published.
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
Just watched it again and the presenter pronounces it 'Ashton Park'.

It must have required careful filming so as to disguise bomb damage across the City. You get a glimpse of damage in the Bull Ring behind the Woodley's furniture sign. But little else.

Enjoyed the film. Some good footage of factory work - labour intensive, those were the days. Pity they didn't put credits at the end - or maybe BFI shortened it. Viv.
 

ASTONITE

master brummie
What an excellent film, you always hope that you will see someone that you recognize, thank you Lynn.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Have been away all day so only just seen this thread. the voice seemed familiar. and it turns out that Mr Emmettmwas the newsreader for Gaumont British News (and also apparently a screenwriter for some unremembered films), so my recognition was not surprising. I was a little concerned that a member considered accuracy unimportant . As someone has already pointed out , this is a HISTORY forum, and accuracy IS important, unlike the often inaccurate, repetitiously boring Facebook , Daily Mail, or the like. But, despite the error (and the statement that they were showing the manufacture of chocolate when one of the scenes showed fondant or caramel making) there were many interesting scenes that made it worth watching, even with the dated commentary style
 

Pedrocut

Master Barmmie
Accuracy may important in History, but sometimes mistakes are made. Unfortunately some mistakes in History are deliberate!
 

Morturn

Super Moderator
Staff member
It is certainly an interesting, but not new debate about historical accuracy. I personally do not believe that there is a subjective truth in history and I avoid using the term ‘historical fact’. My take on this is that historic events are as perceived by the beholder and subjective to their background, education, race, creed, sex, age, environment and a most of everything else that shapes an individual. In short, we all see the world around us differently, and therefore all end up with a slightly or wildly different version of events.


This governs how we record the events, how we remember them and how we recall them in later life. You only have to listen to two people talking about a football match to see this.


In terms of historical sources, both primary and secondary, we know that documentation is not accurate. Either by design, error or manipulation, documentation can be misleading. In history, words will tell us a story of the past that not necessarily happened, but what someone want you to think what happened, or how we wished what had happened. I once read a document that said a double decker bus had been found on the moon.


The written word is the instrument we all play. It’s incredibly powerful, some say mightier than the sword. It can start a war, tell you I love you or can lead you to believe what someone wants you to think.


I certainly do not rely solely on what the documentation has to say when object from the past can and do often tell very different story that the accepted wisdom. While the written word will enhance our knowledge, studying an object will enhance our understanding.


Which leads to the question, is historical accuracy important? To me its not, because then you can open the subject up for a discussion and explore other possibilities that may or may not deepen your understanding.
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
Pedro and Mort. Agree with your points on "truths" as seen by a country, organisation, family etc - a simple example is the family historian who follows up on a long held family story, only to find the facts being twisted either to place the story in a better light or it becomes a story that's changed over time. Sadly, in its extreme form historical 'facts' can do much harm such as hiding the atrocities of war. If these are uncovered over time, all to the good.

The matter of 'Aston/Ashton Park' is a small by comparison, but I think we're all striving to make our site as accurate as we can.

The fact that we can freely challenge information/data etc on here is one of its strengths. Think of how many alternative interpretations and understandings we've arrived at on a whole range of points. As Mort says "open up the subject and explore other possibilities". I'm certainly in favour of this and have thoroughly enjoyed discussions where we've done this. (Probably got too over enthusiastic at times though !)

But one last point I'd add is, let's also be mindful of keeping it in perspective too.

Viv.
 
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