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Memorial found in a skip

pjmburns said:
Yes - they could. Some RC parents might have wanted the child to go to a school close by (if the RC school was a distance from home) - not sure they would have chosen a C of E school though - not in those days. By the way I can't see a church behind the school on the map in 1916. St Johns church and school were much further down the road address given as George Street.
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ive just checked again and i cant see a church behind the school either jan..think i may have miss understood post 17 on this thread
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/mary-street-school-balsall-heath.46391/
 
Alfred Pepperell gives his religion as Cong. on his enlistment papers. He served with the RAMC and was missing believed drowned. I posted the info in #36 but have had another look which is when I found his religion.
 
I am back to tending to think that this came from a school or a club, most probably the former, as the casting is mounted on polished wood to which are attached mounting plates. Some of these boys didn't get as far as employment, and one at least was commemorated in St Mary's at Moseley Village. That most probably leaves school as the only thing they might have had in common. Too young for most clubs, and organisations such as the Boy Scouts would not have had the funds.

Victoria County History of Birmingham should have a good list of the older schools, but not sure whether it is available online, but most local libraries should have a copy in their Reference section.

Maurice
 
Just a brief contribution re the quotation, which is from the popular American Civil War song, The Battle Hymn of the Republic. While not conventionally sung in British churches, it gained popularity with British troops in WWI. To me, this points to a club rather than a church (although I have seen a mention of it being sung by the Methodists in the early 1920s). There is also a poignant informality and familiarity in the use of “our brave men”. Most memorials that I can recall tend to use “the men of this parish/workplace etc.” Maybe I am inferring too much, but there seems to be an egalitarian note being struck, which may point to a smaller organisation than most.
 
Recommending that it would be worth listing the memorial on the Imperial War Museums site for memorials here https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials

Interestingly there's an ‘A Stone’ listed in the IWM records on a memorial at Brandwood End Cemetery. Could this be our ‘A Stone’ listed on the Balsall Heath memorial ? Viv.
 
For info the stone cross in Janice’s post #48 now stands in Brandwood End Cemetery.

If the ‘A Stone’ is the same as on the Balsall Heath memorial, why aren’t the other ‘Stones’ on the Brandwood End cross ? Therefore, why is only he mentioned on the Brandwood End Cross ? Viv.

961CCA0F-3857-4387-B1ED-2540B7A66B3E.jpeg
 
would like to get a look at the names on the memorials either side of the cross viv...think they would have about 30 names on each one

lyn
 
think i am going to stick my neck out and say the plaque came from a demolished school such as mary street school i believe demolished in the 70s

WAM we have limited info and really do need to know exactly when this plaque was found..do you have this information?? would also be useful if the person who rescued it from the skip would come forward

lyn
 
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Sorry I couldn't put this up yesterday but it's the collated material that I was provided on Tuesday. It took a little work to make it work on a pdf this morning.
 

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Thanks. Wam, so someone has done an awful lot of work on this already. I would love to sit and work on this, but will try and catch up later this afternoon.

Maurice
 
wam said:
Sorry I couldn't put this up yesterday but it's the collated material that I was provided on Tuesday. It took a little work to make it work on a pdf this morning.
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thanks WAM but we are still no nearer answering the question of just when this plaque was found in a skip which could help a lot...

jan confused like you are but i still think it was originally in a school...dont know why but mary st school sticks in my head...i guess there is one way to prove or disprove if the fallen men all went to that school and that is to check on the schools addmissions that is if the records still exist and are held at birmingham library....if they did then job done

lyn
 
For those of you that would like to know where the skip was, this comes from a post by Balsall Heath Local History Society on Facebook. "The person who is looking into it now is from Wylde Green. He says it was brought into a church other than his own and the person who left it there was not a member of the congregation and left no details of where it was found. "
As I've said before, I don't think we're going to get anywhere on that line.
 
thanks wam we posted at the same time...so do you know when it was bought into the church?? see my suggestion on post 105

lyn
 
Astoness said:
thanks wam we posted at the same time...so do you know when it was bought into the church?? see my suggestion on post 105

lyn
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I've written to ask when it came in to the church. I doubt I'll see the answer this week. I think there are a lot of possibilities that it could have come from depending on whether the skip came from the original source (Closed or refurbished building) or second hand (something kept by a member of the group that it came from who later died or something of the sort). Of the original sources, I've discounted Tindal Old Boys Club (I have a picture of that one), but there's still Moseley Rd Methodist Church. I have no idea what has happened to Moseley All Services Club but I would suppose they would have had a memorial. If it's second hand there's Moseley Road Congregational (someone listed their religion as cong. in a previous post), kings Heath Services Club (closed in the 90s?) and a few smaller churches that disappeared with the urban renewal programme of the 60s/70s.
 
pjmburns said:
Moseley All Services club is in Church Road Moseley.
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I know but I passed it earlier this year and it seemed to have a change of ownership and no longer the ASC. I looked at the Facebook page this morning and they haven't posted for almost a year. On the other hand there are still events scheduled for the place on http://livebrum.co.uk/venues/moseley-all-services-club . If it's no longer a services club they might have disposed of a memorial.
 
pjmburns said:
Viv why do you think this is the St Paul's cross? Lodge Hill's cross is the same - I think it was a common design.

"A Stone" may have died in the UK of injuries (haven't checked) and be buried at Brandwood.
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Sorry Janice. Got confused about the Lodge Hill cross. On closer inspection I think the panels on the plinth are probably slightly different, but not entirely sure.

A. Stone died of ‘disease’ according to Wam’s list, so yes it must be the same man. Viv.
 
Not sure whether this question has been raised but are there any markings, such as date, maker or other details on the reverse side of the Memorial?
 
No worries Viv - this is driving us all round the bend ;). There is a pension record for A T Stone - he was only in the army a short while - enlisted 5 Sept 1914 and discharged as medically unfit on 28 Sept - length of service 24 days. The register of effects suggest he died in "War Hs" - I wonder if that is workhouse??
 

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I am in the process of developing a community on the Imperial War Museum's 'Lives of WW1' site for those named on the found Balsall Heath memorial. This might widen the coverage. I have included a link to this site - happy to add a link to Balsall Heath history society if they wish too. Just let me know. It might turn up more info in time. As there are so many men, it will take me some time to link all the names with the IWM documents, but I think it will be worth it.

I also did this for our Erdington postmen memorial too when we researched that one.

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/community/7813

Viv.
 
Vivienne14 said:
I am in the process of developing a community on the Imperial War Museum's 'Lives of WW1' site for those named on the found Balsall Heath memorial. This might widen the coverage. I have included a link to this site - happy to add a link to Balsall Heath history society if they wish too. Just let me know. It might turn up more info in time. As there are so many men, it will take me some time to link all the names with the IWM documents, but I think it will be worth it.

I also did this for our Erdington postmen memorial too when we researched that one.

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/community/7813

Viv.
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See Post 100 for the spreadsheet. There are details on there not duplicated on your page and it should be possible to cut and paste from there to speed things up.
 
wam said:
It's not going to help. The book we'd need to see is The log book for the boys department that ran from 1902-40 and it's closed - 100 year rule.
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wam i think you will find the 100 year ruling has well passed with regards to these men ??..they were all born in the 1800s and all died at least 100 years ago...just because the mary st school admissions register may run until 1940 does not mean its closed with regards to the fallen men..maybe someone should approach the archives dept at birmingham library...

just as an aside i was able to view my infants and juniors admissions page (1958) but what was out of bounds was the punishment records...

lyn
 
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Some news that could make things more difficult. The plaque was brought in to the church 5 years ago. It must have come out of the skip sometime before that.
 
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