• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Memorial found in a skip

wam

master brummie
Now wondering if the JE Hardman, H Bates and W Stanley on the Tindall Street memorial are the same men as on the Balsall Heath one ? Viv.
I'd wondered what happened to the Tindal Street memorial. The picture looks like it's been in someone's shed for a while.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
The site does not really make it clear where it is. I agree that looks like someone's shed. Rotting wood at the bottom.
 

wam

master brummie
I had this notice today. It's for an Exhibition at Emmanuel Church, Wylde Green on the 10th of November. I'm told the memorial this has been about will be part of the exhibition. That's the one we started this thread for not the others mentioned.
 

Attachments

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
Had the BBC on the phone again today. Still a total mystery where the plaque was 1950s-2012ish. Not at Ladypool Road, the daughter church.
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
Rob - just a couple of questions. The plaque in #331 contains the name "Carrs Lane Church" - the plaque you were researching has no "church name" - did your contact have any idea whether it was common to have the name of the Church or not? Secondly - do we know why these names are on a congregational plaque?
Sorry for late reply, still working on this: the Congregational Church at that time, that is the Moseley Road one and its three 'daughter' churches, had a membership of 588 - and it seems now that at least three of the names came from the Ladypool Road church. The other factor is that the church may just have been the 'local' church - many people were not too concerned about the niceties of inter-denominational disputes and may have attended their nearest church - or, for instance, been in the Boys' Brigade or similar.
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
Some more info on 2nd Lt George William Bowater service #1029 (another early number) d.20/12/17 was with the Royal Artillery and the Royal Field Artillery and was a Farrier in the army

Viv
George Bowater was the nephew of Alderman Bowater, the Mayor of Birmingham and the driving force behind the formation of the Birmingham Pals' Battalions - I only mention this because it was the central point made in the letter of recommendation for officer training from his commanding officer.
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
Recommending that it would be worth listing the memorial on the Imperial War Museums site for memorials here https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials

Interestingly there's an ‘A Stone’ listed in the IWM records on a memorial at Brandwood End Cemetery. Could this be our ‘A Stone’ listed on the Balsall Heath memorial ? Viv.
I'm in touch with the Stone family, several of whose members are buried in Brandwood End.
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
No worries Viv - this is driving us all round the bend ;). There is a pension record for A T Stone - he was only in the army a short while - enlisted 5 Sept 1914 and discharged as medically unfit on 28 Sept - length of service 24 days. The register of effects suggest he died in "War Hs" - I wonder if that is workhouse??
Yes, this is he. Had a 'dilated heart'. Died in Dudley War Hospital from bronchitis, pneumonia and heart disease.
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
There are 2 issues with the boys records - first the state of the log book as it says This volume is in very poor condition and should not be served. Second the fact that the volume contains material covered by the 100 year rule.
That said I suspect that these entries are not updated so it would be worth enquiring - pointing out that the people you want are deceased.
I've had some experience with the 100-year rule at both the National Archives and the London Metropolitan Archives: If there is a book containing names you have to prove that all the names have been dead for 100 years....
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
“but so far, community searches and discussions with local history groups have proved fruitless.”

No mention of BHS in name. I don’t agree that searches have been fruitless! It has discovered the history of the men who would have been forgotten.
:) I am not responsible for BBC editorialising!
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
What a brave young man - Beresford got an MC. I wondered what part our group of men played in his pre-war life ? Viv.

View attachment 127797
Oddly this report is wrong about he award of the MC, which was gazetted posthumously in September 1918. The citation reads; "“For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty when forward observation officer. He remained at his post until his communications were cut and he was nearly surrounded. He eventually brought in very useful information. He subsequently displayed great coolness and gallantry while temporarily in command of his battery.”
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
i cant help but think that the answer to this plaque is simple but as the saying goes its only easy if you know the answers:rolleyes:

also considering the internet and media coverage not 1 descendent of the men who may still live in brum has either been traced or come forward well not to our knowledge anyway...we were very lucky with our postmans plaque at least 4 out of the 7 names on it had family come forward and family members of 3 of the men were able to attend the re dedication service at the NMA...so onward and upwards ...

lyn
I am now in touch with several relatives (although none now live in Balsall Heath and only one in Birmingham), as a result of publicity and trawling family trees. We hope that several relatives will be attending our church on Saturday or Sunday.
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
Viv,

I'll add a bit more about James Alfred MASON, although he comes under the "Unaccounted for" category in RAF terms. At the time of his death he was serving at RAF Aston Down (formerly RAF Minchinhampton during WW1) in Gloucestershire with 55 Operational Training Unit and flying a Typhoon 1b serial number JP433. His service record and flying logbook are, like all of those relating to WW2, still with the RAF and have not yet been released to the National Archives.

During the two years previous to his death on 20 March 1945, JP433 had been involved in several crashes with other pilots and had been patched up, but I fear we are not going to get information about the circumstances of his death until the records are released for public consumption.

Maurice
Thanks so much for this info.
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
Looks interesting ...

For information, three airmen died in the accident at RAF Aston Down on 20-Mar-1945,
Typhoon JP433 55OTU, collided with an Anson aircraft on approach to RAF Aston Down.
Mason James Alfred F/S (Birmingham)

Anson DJ471 was hit by a Typhoon JP433 55 O.T.U. whilst on approach at RAF Aston Down
Brown James Waldron T/O (Llandudno)
Hill Frank F/O (Hopton St Margaret)
Thanks so much for this info
 

Rob Rolfe

knowlegable brummie
I have started another thread on yet another missing memorial, the thread is GEC memorial plaque now in WW1 discussion.
 
Top