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Mary Ann Lees and her husband William Burton

Jason Ellis

master brummie
Please could I call upon assistance on a roadblock in my family history. I know a lot about my great-great-grandfather William Burton born 23 Nov 1849, Cheapside, Birmingham. I know that his wife Mary Ann, nee Lees died in childbirth 27 Feb 1879 giving birth to my great-grandfather Joseph Alexander Burton. This much is sure - I have the original 150-year-old marriage certificate and the death certificate. My block is with Mary Ann Lees the wife of William Burton. The wedding certificate names Mary Ann's father as Frank Lees (which of course may mean Francis). The only links I can find for Mary Ann's roots are to Oakham, Rutlandshire, but I am deeply suspicious about this being the true descent. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
I'd say it's not Mary Ann Lee born Rutland, daughter of Francis. I think she marries Lewis Thornton, reg Sep 1876 Oakham.

Lewis is listed as an apprentice in 1871 in the household of Francis. In 1881 Lewis & Mary are in Uppingham.

What is her address and occupation, her father's occupation and witnesses?
 
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Could it be Mary Ann Lees born Stafford 1854 , father Francis and mother Elizabeth Simpson.
Francis in 1851 Coke inspector for Railway, in 1871 , Railway engine driver
 
There's a death registration for a Mary Ann Lees of the right age in Stafford 1881.
 
I'd say it's not Mary Ann Lee born Rutland, daughter of Francis. I think she marries Lewis Thornton, reg Sep 1876 Oakham.

Lewis is listed as an apprentice in 1871 in the household of Francis. In 1881 Lewis & Mary are in Uppingham.

What is her address and occupation, her father's occupation and witnesses?
 
Hi Mws,
Thank you for offering to help. I have attached a scan of the original 150-year-old marriage certificate which I am privileged to possess. Marriage at St. Jude's, Birmingham, 6 November 1871:
William Burton age 22, batchelor, upholsterer, Smallbrook Street, father John Burton, Bill Poster (I know that John was a bill poster from at least 1842 to 1891).
Mary Ann Lees age 18, spinster, of Smallbrook Street, father Frank Lees, Spike Maker
The first witness Arthur Lees should help with elimination (possibly Mary Ann's brother, uncle or grand-father?)
The second witness Elizabeth Burton is almost certainly William's mother Elizabeth Burton nee Beaman (1821-1887)

William Burton Mar Cert.jpg
 
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There's a death registration for a Mary Ann Lees of the right age in Stafford 1881.
MWS, Alberta,
Thank you for the possible Stafford connection. The death registration at Stafford is definitely not Mary Ann's. She died in childbirth (giving birth to my great grandfather Joseph Alexander Burton), 27 February 1879 at 8 Court, St George Street, Birmingham. There was a Coroner's Inquest 1 March 1879 which I haven't seen and may possibly give some clues.
 
Sorry, I didn't mean that the Stafford death was your Mary Ann Lees. I meant that that death might rule out the Mary Ann Lees that Alberta found. Apologies for the confusion.
 
Why does the gro list the mmn on your great grandfather's birth registration as Price? And his sister Emma/Emily as well.

If this is correct and some of her children are listed with mmn Lees and others Price it could imply she was an illegitimate Price and her mother subsequently married a Lees or vice versa.

There is a Caroline Price that marries a George Lees but needs a lot of checking.
 
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Hi MWS,
You have latched onto one of my mysteries very quickly. The original marriage cert that I shared earlier was given to me my my late uncle, so I have no doubt whatsoever that it is my family. As far as I can make out William Burton and his wife Mary Ann, nee Lees had the following children:
  • Jemima Kate b 1871, mar John Thomas Jones in 1895.
  • Emma b 1872, with the family on 1881 census, then nothing further known.
  • Martha Emily b 1874, mar Edward Nathaniel Porter in 1896.
  • William Arthur b 1877, went to India and was never heard of again according to my grandmother (my research suggests that was after a spell at borstal in Fillongley according to 1891 census, which would make sense).
  • Joseph Alexander b 1879 (my gt gt grandfather), bap 19 May 1879, Birmingham St Paul's. He was a veteran of both the Boer War and WW1 and I have his medals and his WW1 attestation.
Now if you look at the two attached birth certs below:
  • William's mother in 1877 is recorded as Mary Ann Burton, formerly Lees.
  • Joseph Alexander's mother is 1879 is recorded as Mary Ann Burton, formerly Price?
The question mark added by the registrar is crucial. I obtained that copy in 1988 and it drove me crazy for 20 years looking for a mother called Price. I have concluded that the GRO register handwriting is poor and looks like Price when it should be Lees. There is no question that it is the birth certificate of my gt gt grandfather. All the dates and addresses match other information such as death certificates, war records, medals everything. The only possible alternative hypothesis is that after marrying Mary Ann Lees, William Burton Married a second time to a Mary Ann Price. But I cannot find any records to support that hypothesis.

I really look forward to any new observations, questions or conclusions. Thank you so much for your time and effort.

Jason
William Burton.jpgJoseph Alexander Burton.jpg
 
There is a register for an Emily Burton mmn Price, Mar qtr 1873 Aston. It's not uncommon for Emma and Emily to be mixed up. If this is your Emma then that would seem to suggest that the name Price may be significant.

Also she may be William Burton's daughter but Jemima was registered as Jemima Lees, Mar qtr 1871 Aston. I was hoping that she would be on the 1871 census but no luck.
 
Jason/MWS,

Births and Deaths have now been digitised up to 1934. Would it be worth getting a pdf version of the original PRICE? one to see if you can decipher it as LEES ? Just a thought.

Maurice :cool:
 
Just an observation. If two children have mmn as Price I would have thought it unlikely to be a mistranscription. Perhaps it is down to the person registering the birth. The ? might indicate someone saying "I think it was Price". William's birth reg by Mary Ann who ought to know her name. Joseph's by Elizabeth Burton who may not.
 
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Jason/MWS,

Births and Deaths have now been digitised up to 1934. Would it be worth getting a pdf version of the original PRICE? one to see if you can decipher it as LEES ? Just a thought.

Maurice :cool:
Sospiri, Thank you for that suggestion. I have just listed out all the certificates I need to obtain and will order them all today.
 
Just an observation. If two children have mmn as Price I would have thought it unlikely to be a mistranscription. Perhaps it is down to the person registering the birth. The ? might indicate someone saying "I think it was Price". William's birth reg by Mary Ann who ought to know her man. Joseph's by Elizabeth Burton who may not.
Janice, thank you, this is a very sound and plausible suggestion. It coincides nicely with my next line of research that I am commencing today. I now testing out a hypothesis that Mary Ann Lees was not born as Mary Ann Lees but became Mary Anne Lees. There are two ways this could come about:
  1. She was born illegitimately as Mary Ann Price, or
  2. She was born legitimately as Mary Ann Price,
then, whichever of the two above occurred, her mother married (potion 1) or remarried (option 2) to Frank Lees and thereafter Mary Ann was no longer known as Mary Ann Price but became known as Mary Ann Lees.

I have spotted more than one Birmingham family where option 2 may apply, so I have now got to research if the death of the Price Husband is in the right timeframe and if it is to to find a second marriage of the Price wife to Frank Lees. That will keep be busy!
Why does the gro list the mmn on your great grandfather's birth registration as Price? And his sister Emma/Emily as well.

If this is correct and some of her children are listed with mmn Lees and others Price it could imply she was an illegitimate Price and her mother subsequently married a Lees or vice versa.

There is a Caroline Price that marries a George Lees but needs a lot of checking.
MWS, Thank you. I am about to start looking at this possibilty. I will cover the plan in a seperate post
 
Sospiri, Thank you for that suggestion. I have just listed out all the certificates I need to obtain and will order them all today.
Sospiri, I have ordered a dozen certificates attacking the challenge from every angle. I hope it turns out to be a worthwhile investment. Thank you for informing me that the facility existed, I wouldn't have known otherwise.

BTW, I am making hay while the sun shines and downloads from National Archives are temporarily free of charge. I have found some very interesting wills.
 
Hello again,
I am still trying to decipher this family history conundrum and I am now attacking it from the angle of trades. On the 1881 census for William Burton is shown at 42 Hanley Street, Birmingham with a trade of "Packer FL". Any idea what FL may signify?

His trade at other times are:
  • Bill poster (the family trade)
  • Upholsterer
  • Porter
  • Packer (without the "FL")

The only connection I can think of is a meat market (porter and meat packer) but that get me no closer to what "FL" signifies. I have consulted the dictionary of old trades and no help there. Because his main trade is a bill poster I would love to think that "Packer FL" has some connection with bill posting.

Jason
 
Jason
Looking at the entry I would suggest that the two letter MIGHT be a later addition to the entry by the enumerator (possibly to help classification), which might, or might not, mean that it is not part of the job description,

ScreenHunter 5745.jpg
 
Jason,

F.L. might be Free-lance? - the word dates from about 1800.

Bill (and it's Burton - but mine originate in the west side of town and Smethwick)
 
Could somebody please oblige me with some further trade directory look-ups:

John Burton between about 1828 and 1890, Bill Poster and Periodical Dealer, Locksmith and Bill Poster. Of Temple Street, Hill Street, Cheapside, Pinfold Street, Church Street, Northwood Street and Newhall Street.

William Burton between about 1864 and 1920, Bill Poster, Upholster. Of Pinfold Street, Clement Street, Smallbrook Street, Lower Windsor Street, Lawley Street, Smith Street, St George Street, Northwood Street, Hanley Street, Green Street and High Street Deritend.

They do move around a lot don't they!

Thank you in anticipation
Jason
 
Remember date of directory is publication date, not date of survey
John Burton
There is a John Burton , victualler at 5 Freeman St in the 1833 directory and as victualler at 15 Freeman st in the 1839 directory.

1845 and 1849 Bill sticker and newsman 10 Cheapside
1855 , 1858 , 1862 Billposter 21 Pinfold St
1867 billposter and newsagent.44 Church St
1868 billposter and newsagent.45 Church St
1872, 1873 billposter and newsagent. 7½ Church St
1876 Billposter 92 Northwood St
(Also newsagent 60 bath row (probably different man))
1878, 1879, 1880. 1882, 1883 Billposter and toolbroker, 92 Northwood St
(Also newsagent 60 bath row (probably different man no 182 in 1883))
1884, 1888, 1890 General Billposter and toolbroker, 91 & 92 Northwood St
1892 No longer listed

William Burton
Cannot find a William Burton listed who was billposter or similar, or uphosterer or in those streets in directories 1858-1921, though for much of that period there was a William Burton, stationer at 90 Cromwell St
 
Remember date of directory is publication date, not date of survey
John Burton
There is a John Burton , victualler at 5 Freeman St in the 1833 directory and as victualler at 15 Freeman st in the 1839 directory.

1845 and 1849 Bill sticker and newsman 10 Cheapside
1855 , 1858 , 1862 Billposter 21 Pinfold St
1867 billposter and newsagent.44 Church St
1868 billposter and newsagent.45 Church St
1872, 1873 billposter and newsagent. 7½ Church St
1876 Billposter 92 Northwood St
(Also newsagent 60 bath row (probably different man))
1878, 1879, 1880. 1882, 1883 Billposter and toolbroker, 92 Northwood St
(Also newsagent 60 bath row (probably different man no 182 in 1883))
1884, 1888, 1890 General Billposter and toolbroker, 91 & 92 Northwood St
1892 No longer listed

William Burton
Cannot find a William Burton listed who was billposter or similar, or uphosterer or in those streets in directories 1858-1921, though for much of that period there was a William Burton, stationer at 90 Cromwell St
Mikejee,
That is so kind of you to do that and so promptly as well. Your effort is truly appreciated.
Jason
 
Sospiri, I have ordered a dozen certificates attacking the challenge from every angle. I hope it turns out to be a worthwhile investment. Thank you for informing me that the facility existed, I wouldn't have known otherwise.

BTW, I am making hay while the sun shines and downloads from National Archives are temporarily free of charge. I have found some very interesting wills.
hi jason just wondering if all those certs you ordered proved useful with your brick wall

lyn
 
hi jason just wondering if all those certs you ordered proved useful with your brick wall

lyn
Hi Lyn,
I ordered every available certificate. They were of course informative, but they have not solved my riddle. It remains as follows.

It all starts with a 151-year-old family heirloom, the original 1871 marriage certificate of William Burton and Mary Ann Lees which I possess. It names William’s father as John Burton, Bill Poster and Mary Ann’s father as Frank Lees, Spike Maker. One witness is Elizabeth Burton, who I assume to be Elizabeth, nee Beaman and the other is Arthur Lees who remains a mystery. I will return to these later, but what is important is that it links William to his father John the bill poster. This certificate was given to me by my late grandmother in about 1977 with many other certificates, photographs, medals, postcards etc when I began to discuss our family history with her.

In summary, I am absolutely certain that this William Burton and Mary Ann Lees are my ancestors. It is confirmed by my grandmother and why on earth would this original marriage certificate be in the family collection if it was not “our” family?

I will now summarise two generations of the Burton family to put my doubts into context, although all of this is documented in far greater detail in www.familysearch.org

John Burton (1817-1891) was a bill poster for all his adult life and married Elizabeth Beaman (1821-1887) in 1842. They had the following children:
  • Harriet Burton (1843–1898)
  • Emma Burton (1844–1929)
  • Jemima Sarah Burton (1846–1927)
  • Joseph Thomas Burton (1848–1849)
  • William Burton (1849–1918) of whom more below
  • Elizabeth Burton (1851–1931)
  • John Burton (1853–1854)
  • Alice Burton (1855–????)
  • Alexander Arthur Burton (1858–1858)
  • Female (never named) Burton 1860–1860)
William Burton (1849–1918) was also a bill poster, but not all of his life, he was also a porter and a packer – and on his wedding certificate he was an upholsterer. He married Mary Ann Lees in 1871 and they had the following children:
  • Jemima Kate Burton (1870–????) (although she was born out of wedlock as Jemima, daughter of Mary Ann Lees, but I have always assumed her to be the natural child of William)
  • Emily Burton (1873–????)
  • Martha Burton (1874–1907)
  • William Arthur Burton (1877–????)
  • Joseph Alexander Burton (1879–1928)
We can be certain they had no more children because Mary Ann died giving birth to Joseph Alexander Burton in 1879. Her date and place of death are the same as his date and place of birth. It is confirmed by the death certificate.

All the available censuses either confirm this family grouping of at least there is nothing that contradicts it. It is frustrating that I cannot find an 1891 census record for any other than Joseph Alexander Burton who was living with his grandfather John Burton. Where were William, Jemima Kate, Emily, Martha and William Arthur in 1891?

The mystery
All of the above makes sense. Family recollections and most of the evidence links all of the above together. One of the most crucial records is the 1881 census which puts Joseph Alexander and his sister Emily in the house of his grandfather John Burton, bill poster. So this pretty much proves that Joseph Alexander Burton is the grandson of John Beaman and by inference the son of William Burton and Mary Ann Lees.

The problem starts when you examine the GRO birth records and obtain the birth certificates which I have done. We now find three of the children have MMN Lees, but two of them have MMN Price!
  • Jemima Kate Burton (1870–????) (MMN Lees).
  • Emily Burton (1873–????) (MMN Price)
  • Martha Burton (1874–1907) (MMN Lees)
  • William Arthur Burton (1877–????) (MMN Lees)
  • Joseph Alexander Burton (1879–1928) (MMN Price)
We can rule out two marriages for William, first to Mary Ann Lees who died, then second to Mary Ann Price because if that were the case we would have some Lees children born first followed chronologically by some Price children.

I have considered many times if I may have accidentally conflated two family groups as follows:

William Burton and Mary Ann Lees with children:
  • Jemima Kate Burton (1870–????)
  • Martha Burton (1874–1907)
  • William Arthur Burton (1877–????)
Conflated with William Burton and Mary Ann Price with children:
  • Emily Burton (1873–????)
  • Joseph Alexander Burton (1879–1928)
There is one thing which lends credence to this hypothesis of conflation, which is that on the 1881 census Emily and Joseph (both MMN Price) are with grandparents, whereas Jemima Kate, Martha and William Arthur are with their widowed father William. However, my thoughts on this are that when William’s wife Mary Ann died giving birth to Joseph Alexander he could not possibly look after a new born baby on his own so Joseph Alexander was taken home by grandmother Elizabeth, nee Beaman (who was present at the birth/death) and she took Emily as well to be his nursemaid/ companion (although she was only six years old). Was the choice to take just Emily because she is his only sibling? What about Jemima Kate who was 9 and Martha who was even younger at 5). Or does this suggest they are separate families?

The arguments against conflation of two families are huge.
  1. It would mean two William Burtons, both of whom were bill posters, one who married Mary Ann Lees and the other who married Mary Ann Price. That seems most improbable!
  2. There cannot possibly be two William Burtons both of whom were sons of John Burton and Ann Beaman!
  3. I cannot find any marriage of a William Burton to a Mary Ann Price, although there are about five Mary Ann Prices born in Birmingham in the appropriate timeframe to make this even more complex by ruling out each one individually.
  4. If the mother of Joseph Alexander Burton is Mary Ann Price and not Mary Ann Lees why have I got Mary Ann Lees original marriage certificate?
Another hypothesis
Was Mary Ann born Mary Ann Price and then adopted by Frank Lees such that she was confused about which was really her maiden name and used the two interchangeably? We should not overlook that because Mary Ann died giving birth to Joseph Alexander the informant was not Mary Ann herself but Elizabeth, nee Beaman. Was it perhaps Elizabeth who was confused about Mary Ann’s maiden name? However, this falls over with the birth certificate for Emily Burton which names the mother as “Mary Ann Burton formerly Price”. Mary Ann is the informant herself on this certificate.

The 1851 census of Edmund Street Birmingham shows Mary Ann Price, b1845, Birmingham, an adopted child of Thomas Lee (born 1875, Leeds) and his wife Jane (born 1808, Ireland). Is this relevant or just an unrelated co-incidence?

Other mysteries which if explained may shed some light.
As already mentioned, can we find the missing 1891 census for William, Jemima Kate, Martha and William Arthur?

Who is Frank Lees and who was his wife? I can find nothing conclusive on Frank Lees, the Spike Maker. I have a convoluted reason for suspecting that it might be Martha, but I can’t prove it. I suggest this because on the birth certificate of Jemima Burton 21 Dec 1870 it names the mother as Mary Ann Lees, brush maker, no father and the informant as “Martha Lees, Occupier, 6 Court, Lower Windsor Street, Aston”.

Who is Arthur Lees, the witness to the marriage of William Burton and Mary Ann Lees?

Who is Martha, the second wife of William Burton, bill poster as shown on the 1901 census?

Who is Anne, the third wife of William Burton, bill poster as shown on the 1911 census?

Who is Rob Price, bill poster, living with William Burton, bill poster and his wife Martha on the aforementioned 1901 census?

Who is Mary Ann Lees, born out of wedlock (no Father’s name) 20 Dec 1851 Birmingham to Emma Lees? Is she relevant or completely unrelated?

If anybody can shed any light on this and solve my 40-year-old mystery I would be extremely grateful.
 
Who is Mary Ann Lees, born out of wedlock (no Father’s name) 20 Dec 1851 Birmingham to Emma Lees? Is she relevant or completely unrelated?

If anybody can shed any light on this and solve my 40-year-old mystery I would be extremely grateful.

You might be able to eliminate this Mary Ann Lees as there is a death Jun qtr 1852, Bham age 0 and there doesn't seem to be anyone else it could be but can't be certain.
 
Looking at Rob Price, with just that one appearance to go on and him being a boarder as well it's impossible to confirm how much have that info is correct.

Assuming it is reasonably correct there are 2 Robert Price born in the Bham area around 1876. One in Bham mmn Dunn but he appears to die the same year. The other is reg. West Brom 1877 mmn Owen.

He appears to be the son of William Price and Emma Owen but she is too young to be Mary Ann's mother. However, her sister Mary Ann Owen seems to marry a Thomas Price (though can't see a registration) but she does have a daughter with him called Mary Ann born later. Interestingly Emma and Mary Ann have a sister called Jemima.

I think that's clutching at straws though.
 
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