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LOVVEGROVE/DODWELL

greywolf

hunter of ancestry
Hi Everyone
Hope someone could help me, I finally received my Grand Mom birth certificate: ANNIE LOVEGROVE born in Birmingham Warwickshire 1899 to FREDERICK LOVEGROVE and MARY DODWELL at 8 Court 3 St George st. My problem is for the life of me i can not find any marriage cert. And the DNA test said I'm most certainly related to the THOMAS 1845 and MATTHEW 1847 DODWELL's line... the ownly MARY DODWELL I could find was born to that family was born 1887, She would have been 11-12 yrs old when she had my Great Uncle ALFRED LOVEGROVE 12 when she hand my NAN and 13 when she had my Great Aunt AMY LOVEGROVE...any help would be appreciated
 

MWS

master brummie
I think we've looked at this a couple of times. I think they were children of Frederick Dodwell and Mary Lovegrove, confusion occurring because of how they were registered, as Lovegrove instead of Dodwell.

Alfred and Amy were listed as Lovegrove with no mother's name and Annie was listed as Lovegrove with mother's name as Dodwell.

Frederick Dodwell was born in Coventry, son of Thomas (as above) and Florence.

Mary Lovegrove was born in Coventry, daughter of Joseph and Annie.
 
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MWS

master brummie
It is possible that both Frederick and Mary were already married. Frederick to an Amy Sidwell (1891) and Mary to an Edwin Willoughby (1896) though Edwin seems to marry in 1897 to someone else. Which would explain why they never married.

Frederick and Amy had a daughter Nellie.
 

greywolf

hunter of ancestry
It is possible that both Frederick and Mary were already married. Frederick to an Amy Sidwell (1891) and Mary to an Edwin Willoughby (1896) though Edwin seems to marry in 1897 to someone else. Which would explain why they never married.

Frederick and Amy had a daughter Nellie.
Hi MWS yes I did find that to, but one problem its FREDERICK DODWELL not {LOVEGROVE} DODWELL married AMY SIDWELL they had one child NELLIE DODWELL in 1894, But then in the 1901 census AMY and daughter NELLIE are listed live with Amy's parents, and FREDERICK was list with MARY 1901 census [course he could have been 2 timing AMY !] Then in the 1911 census AMY and daughter are listed as living with AMY'S sisters. And FREDERICK is listed living with MARY till 1930....and this is my delemma
 

MWS

master brummie
Definitive prove is hard to come by sometimes.

It seems to me that your ancestors are Frederick Dodwell and Mary Lovegrove and that Frederick Dodwell married Amy Sidwell and then for whatever reason went off with Mary. The children were listed as illegitimate Lovegrove children because they weren't married. Dodwell appearing as the mother's name for Annie is just a mistake. They never married because Frederick and Amy never divorced.

Amy is still listed as Dodwell and married on the 1939 register with daughter and son in law.
 

greywolf

hunter of ancestry
Definitive prove is hard to come by sometimes.

It seems to me that your ancestors are Frederick Dodwell and Mary Lovegrove and that Frederick Dodwell married Amy Sidwell and then for whatever reason went off with Mary. The children were listed as illegitimate Lovegrove children because they weren't married. Dodwell appearing as the mother's name for Annie is just a mistake. They never married because Frederick and Amy never divorced.

Amy is still listed as Dodwell and married on the 1939 register with daughter and son in law.

ANNIE's birth certificate say's Frederick LOVEGROVE why not DODWELL and this Lovegrove was giving 3x on each birth cert. And mother is sign MARY DODWELL. My Great Aunt AMY LOVEGROVE married HERBERT VICTOR PRITCHARD 1925 Halifax Nova Scotia. She gave parents as FREDERICK LOVEGROVE and MARY DODWELL, ANNIE LOVEGROVE married FRANCIS AUGUSTUS LOVEGROVE in 1931 Halifax Nova Scotia list her parents as FREDERICK LOVEGROVE and MARY DODWELL...why not sign their surname DODWELL, Both can be found at: https://www.novascotiagenealogy.com/ResultsPage.aspx
 

MWS

master brummie
I'm not disputing anything you say. Maybe they just didn't know, things can easily get mixed up over time.

Why weren't they with their parents in 1911? If they were also abandoned who was there to tell them, especially if scandal meant they had nothing to do with their families. Amy is listed as emigrating as a Middlemore child so were the parents not around then?

The thing you know for certain is dna tells you you're related to Thomas and Matthew Dodwell and there doesn't seem to be a Mary that connects you so that leaves Frederick.

A lot of questions but not a lot of certain answers unfortunately.
 

greywolf

hunter of ancestry
I'm not disputing anything you say. Maybe they just didn't know, things can easily get mixed up over time.

Why weren't they with their parents in 1911? If they were also abandoned who was there to tell them, especially if scandal meant they had nothing to do with their families. Amy is listed as emigrating as a Middlemore child so were the parents not around then?

The thing you know for certain is dna tells you you're related to Thomas and Matthew Dodwell and there doesn't seem to be a Mary that connects you so that leaves Frederick.

A lot of questions but not a lot of certain answers unfortunately.
 

greywolf

hunter of ancestry
Thanks MWS appreciate your help ... I had notice that 1911 census too an thought it strange that no parents were about and Amy being ship out over seas but i did wonder why not Annie too as she would have been 16 ...I guess that old saying back in the day ..[A man was only as good as his word] didn't always ring true... judging from Annie birth cert mess up
 

cba

master brummie
I have a Dodwell in my family tree. Eleanor Frances married Samuel Hope (my GGGrandfather) in August 1863.
Carolann
 

greywolf

hunter of ancestry
I have a Dodwell in my family tree. Eleanor Frances married Samuel Hope (my GGGrandfather) in August 1863.
Carolann
Hi Carolann
Was Eleanor born in Warwichshire? It would be wonderful to find a connection with her and my Dodwell family
Angie
 

cba

master brummie
From what I can make out she was born in Dudley in 1848 but is commonly known as Ellen in the census and is shown as being born in Handsworth Staffordshire or Warwickshire. Her husband Samuel was a goldsmith specialising in wedding rings and had his own hallmark. there is a thread devoted to him see Samuel Hope.
Did you know that an Eleanor Dodwell went down with the Lusitania in 1917? Was that a relative of yours.
Carolann
 

greywolf

hunter of ancestry
I think there is a connection Carolann just not sure where, My Dodwells were also jewellers and watchmakers. They were from Warwickshire. That's so sad to hear about Ellen losing her life like that, the Lusitania and Titanic cost a lot of people their lives and most of the ones that died were the poor in 3 class who just trying and make a new life for them selves.
 

greywolf

hunter of ancestry
Carolann

I was looking at the birthday you gave for Ellen 1848, and the age of the Eleanor Dodwell on the Lusitania which was given as 26 in 1915 which means she was born in 1889, If your Ellen born 1848 went down on the Lustania in 1915 she would have been 67, So that might not be the same Ellen, and the Eleanor on ship is list as working on broad as a Victualling, which was to do meal planning and shopping for a passage on board a boat.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
#12 doesn't say Ellen (Eleanor) died on the Lusitania. It says "an Eleanor Dodwell" died and wonders if she was a relative.
 
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