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look up please

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
would appreciate another pair of eyes folks..trying find 2 brothers missing off the 71 and 81 census...they are william holyoak b bridgewater abt 1858 and charles holyoak b bridgewater abt 1861...

thanks for any help given...

lyn
 

Sparkhill Lad

master brummie
could this be them in 1871
Charles Arthur Street, Aston, Birmingham
District:Aston
Sub District:Duddeston
Address:Charles Arthur Street, Aston, Birmingham
HOLYOAK, Ann Head YorkshireH
HOLYOAK, William Worcestershire
HOLYOAK, Charles Worrcestershire
HOLYOAK, John Warwickshire
HOLYOAK, Arthur Warwickshire
HOLYOAK, Agnes Warwickshire
 
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Sparkhill Lad

master brummie
was their father a builder?

1881
Father Joseph a widower
William is a school master
no sign of Charles here.
Sorry about jumble of 1871 census
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
thank you for looking sparkhill lad..no i am afaid thats not them on the 71 as they were born in bridgewater somerset..i dont think thats them on the 81 either as we believe the joseph we are researching died in 1869. just out of interest what address do you have for that 1881 census and where was joseph and william born..

thanks..

lyn
 
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Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
Lyn the 1881 is SuttonRoad,Aston(that will be Erdington,Aston for census purpose.
Joseph age 57 b. Harborne
daughter Caroline 32 Birmingham
William 24 Erdington

Joseph is a housebuilder enploying 20 men.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
thanks alberta...in that case they are not the right family.

thanks for confirming...

lyn
 

sarunte43

master brummie
Hi, Lynn
1861 census has Jos. Holyoak, carpenter, born abt 1829 in Berkshire
+Mary Ann, age 25-1836, born Bridgwater
+ Helen, 4, born Gloucestershire
+ William, 3, born Bridgwater
+ Charles W. 7 months, born Bridgewater

Didn't find either William or Charles in 1871-1881 but
did find Carrie L. Holyoak, house servant in Kensington, London in the 1881 census.
Then in 1890 found a marriage - Charles Holyoak + Caroline Holyoak at Highwood, Wiltshire
and 1891 census has Charles + Caroline Holyoak at Swindon.

1901 census has Charles Holyoak, rivetter, born Bridgwater
+Caroline L. (Louisa?) born Wiltshire
+ Elizabeth Ellen L. 1892, born at Purton, Wiltshire
+ Belinda May, 1893, born at Swindon

Also found a Caroline Louise Holyoak death 1903 at Swindon
+ Charles W. Holyoak death Sept 1933 at Swindon
Hope this helps...
Sarunte43
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi shirl..thank you ever so much..i will go through all that info and see if it makes sense..had a right old to do with this family...

hope you are well shirl..

lyn
 

maybell

master brummie
Hi lyn had a look on this for you and found a marr for these Joseph Holyoak and Mary Ann Bidgood it was Mar Qaut 1860 in Bridgewater, so in all probability the Children showing on 1861 Census would have had a different birth name. There is also listed on Ancestry for Mary Ann Holyoak at Somerset Asises 2 terms of Imprisonment, in 1863 and also 1867. she was in prison on the 1871 Census in Surrey. I have only got a basic Ancestry sub so perhaps someone can check these Prison terms for you. Alan.
 

maybell

master brummie
hi Lyn The Charles and Caroline marr in Highwood wilts is the right one Charles born Bridgewater, They were Cousins, Her Father Thomas Holyoak being Josephs Brother.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi alan..thanks for having a search for me...yes ive got the marriage for joseph and mary and now think that the 2 eldest children on the 61 census are josephs children from a previous marriage we have found..of course this would still make them holyoaks but it could be possible that after joseph diied in 69 and mary ann was sent to prison in (i have got 68 not 67 alan wonder if you could check that year again please)the 2 eldest children could have been looked after by his first wifes family while george and caroline the youngest were put into the gloucester workhouse as we know this to be the case...

joseph married..mary ann bidgood in 1860..and we think he first married selinda robinson in 1853...she died in 1859...

i think we are getting there slowly and building up a pic..had to order another cert to confirm something that should be here by sat with a bit of luck..

thanks to everyone who is helping me with this...

lyn
 
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sarunte43

master brummie
Just to muddy things a bit...
I have found a Mary Ann Holyoak as 'convict' in Surrey from the 1871 census +
a death of Joseph Holyoak in 1860. London burials gives a burial date of 24 Sept 1860

Looks like these two might be two others with the same names....?
SR
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi shirl and thanks for that ..we have mary ann as a convict on the 71 census..she was given 10 months in 1863 and 7 years in 1868...
dont think the joseph who died london is anything to do with the ones i am researching but will check it out....

thanks again as any bits of info could be important...

lyn
 

sarunte43

master brummie
Very glad to help.
We also have a convict in the family. Found Luther Charles, age 16, in 1901 census at Her Majesty's Prison, Worcester, Worcestershire.
How do you find more information about prisoners?

SR
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
shirl i think most prisons may have there own website so you could google worcester prison and see if they point you in the direction of the old prison records...i would imagine they are in the archives at worcesters main library but i would see if there is a website first...

lyn
 

smtr

master brummie
Very glad to help.
We also have a convict in the family. Found Luther Charles, age 16, in 1901 census at Her Majesty's Prison, Worcester, Worcestershire.
How do you find more information about prisoners?

SR
Hi
Did he have a brother Joseph Charles? If so I think I have found a newspaper report mentioning Luther and Joseph in 1900.

regards
Suzanne
 
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