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Kynoch's I M I 1950s Onwards

Wellhead Lane
Image referred to is unavailable.
Chris...
Sorry I cannot help you with those photos.Unfortunatly I have no photo's of the Lodge Wellhead Lane either. Only this one.. I will e.mail it to you.
 
Imi Kynoch

I worked quite close to you.
I spent 4 years in the Engineering Workshops
from 1960 to 1964.
Occasional went into the press for odd jobs but
they had their own staff.
Must have walked passed it thousands of time.
Great photo prooves the sun did shine on us.
What a great place although I spent most of my spare time either
in the Snooker at the Club in Holford Drive playing Football and Cricket.
I remember the Canteen it was always packed at Lunch time.

Mike Jenks
 
Thanks for the location identifications, Mike. On the other (non Elstub/strip mill) picture it is of course Michael Clapham who is escorting the honoured guest. Some of the others in the background must be recognisable. (?J.S. Clay at the extreme right?) My father is extreme left, wondering whether he is going to be presented but 100% ready just in case!

I didn’t realise that the Wellhead Lane entrance included a residence, izabellanne. Never worked at Witton but do I remember that the medical centre was adjacent to that building?

Jennyann – re your posting of last year, I have a photograph of Robert McCulloch. If it’s of any interest I can PM it to you.

Chris
 
Thanks for the photos, a very young St John Elstub and Michael Clapham, and the photo of Paper Box. I have lovely memories of my years there in the 50's. I have written about it before. We youngsters were really well looked after, and no sooner had I arrived home after work than I was off out again back to the ICI either to the Youth Club or the Pavilion. We would go on coach trips to watch the boys play football, once a year we all went to Blackpool and in the summer we spent our two weeks holiday in Tenbury Wells, Worcestshire at the ICI summer camp, sleeping under canvas at 'Cyrils Farm' :)
 
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Di...
I also went to the youth club. We went on a couch one evening to a dance, I cannot remember where.Yes we young ones were looked after. We had to attend Brooklyn Technical college once a week. There was the on site Dentist and Optitions. I was prescribed my first pair of reading glasses there. I still have them, not to use I may say. MUCH MUCH stronger ones needed now. Also if you were ill you had to see the nurse before you could go home.I complained of a really painful monthly once and she gave me a dose of quinene, I never complained again... I loved the sports day every year. My Dad would be there with his well polished fire engine on show. I also loved the Christmas dance.Did anyone else go to them?:D
..........................................
This is another photo outside Paper Box. I am the first on the left. The girl in the middle is my friend Jean who emigrated to Canada in 1962. We still keep in touch by E.Mail.
 
Thanks Chris :)

I will have another look through my pics to see if there's anything else I could post although I think most of them are of family members rather than places, etc.

I've just got in touch with a cousin I've not seen for years and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that his side of the family have my gran and grandad's photographs. If they do and I can get to see them, I'll have a look through those to see if there are any more I could post.

Tanya x
 
BBC 2 - History Detectives - tonight, Friday Sept. 21st at 7.30pm

Have just received this. It sounds as though the programme might be to do with Witton’s highly secret wartime involvement in the "Tube Alloys Project", Britain's atomic energy effort, especially in connection with development of methods of separating the isotope U235 from uranium……...

You might be interested in the above programme which is expected to refer to some depleted uranium in the hands of a descendant of someone believed to have been an ICI metals division employee in the 1940s and 50s and possibly until 1967.
Programme blurb is:
Ray Adcock has what he believes to be a piece of uranium, kept in a lead-lined cat food tin. Using advanced scientific methods Claire Barratt confirms that it is indeed radioactive, and reveals the hidden story of Britain’s attempts to build a nuclear weapon in secret during the Second World War.

Chris
 
That sounds a really interesting programme, Chris. Have just set the set the skybox to record it tonight just in case I miss it. :) x
 
Kynochs or IMI

Hi

Reallly interesting History programme last night on Kynochs.
Out thread is on the ball on this one.
When I was there we were doing all soughts of things for the
Atomic Energy.
I remember one week we were put in a special area with thousands
of long rods. We had white suits and gloves on and had to staighten
them. A long Vee block system with Dial clock gauges. All had to be within
around 2 thou.
Not a bad job for an apprentice at least we sat down all day.
Afterwards a good wash and some food.
The new metas area produced all soughts of Metal for this Industry.
Fortunately or Unfortunately dependant where you are on Nuclear Power
it all folded up and we changed to US Fast Breader rectors. These
were are lot cheaper than ours although I thnk there is a waste issue
with these v the Earlier British design.
Still a great TV programme nearly had a British A Bomb before the Yanks.
Enclosed a sketch of a reactor Core showing those Rods in the Middle.

Mike Jenks
 
I thought the programe was very interesting. Then it got me thinking about a job I was doing when I worked at the Amal as a 17/18 year old around 54/55 just before I was called up. One morning the Boss called me into the office, funny I thought I haven't been chatting the girls up again. No He asked me if I woulsd like to join a team of Men in White coats who were working on some sort of Filter it wasn't small like you would put into a car or Motor Bike because it was heavy and we had inspestors around two or three times a day and the area was kept spotless, everyone wore gloves Cotton or Rubber. Nobody ever told me what it was for or anything else. Then I was off to do my National Sevice then on my return 2 years later I think it was gone and I started in a new section on a machine.
Thanks Mike for telling us:)
 
Witton and nuclear engineering

The History Detectives programme was fascinating. But it only gave a view of what Witton did in one particular and barely hinted at the broad scope of work done in furtherance of the country’s nuclear programme. The presenter is seen at one stage thumbing through a history of Kynoch, covering the years 1862 to 1962. This is what that history had to say about such things, written from a 1961/1962 perspective:



Most secret of all the most secret operations with which the Metal Group was concerned, perhaps, was the work from 1940 onwards on the so-called Tube Alloys Project. This was the code name for Britain's atomic energy effort, which impinged on the Metal Group in its earliest days because of the abstruse metallurgical problems involved. In those crowded and abnormal times, senior staff could disappear for weeks or months on end without causing 'careless talk': employees at all levels and in many departments became so used to inexplicable hush-hush experiments that historic milestones flashed past unnoticed. It was only much later that Authority publicly acknowledged the important contributions made by Metal Group employees to the development of nuclear engineering, and by that time the industry had acquired new civilian status. We shall see later how wartime work on separating uranium isotopes, producing extruded uranium and developing nuclear fuel cans was to open up a new sphere of activity for the Metal Group as a whole and for Kynoch Works in particular………………..​
...........The intricate metallurgical problems involved in utilising and controlling atomic power are not readily translated into everyday terms, and this is no place for a technical dissertation. The nearest we can achieve to a summary is to say that every stage in the development of nuclear engineering, from separating fissile uranium for the first atomic bomb to stepping up the output of the latest nuclear power station, has created metallurgical problems of unprecedented difficulty, and that the technical expertise and practical experience of Metals Division have at every point contributed impressively to their solution.
One of the Division's first jobs - nearly 20 years ago (i.e. in about 1942) - was to convert massive uranium (made by ICI General Chemicals Division) into a usable wrought form, and it was in a Witton mill that Britain's first extruded uranium first saw the light of day. In those early days, however, most of the work done at Witton and in other Division factories consisted in adapting conventional metals, such as copper and aluminium, to new and exacting forms - to make porous metal membranes for isotope separation, for example, or various forms of sheathing for nuclear fuel. At this point it was knowledge of metal working and fabrication which was most in demand, and both Kynoch Works and Marston Excelsior helped to supply it.
Soon, however, it became obvious that some nuclear engineering components, particularly fuel sheathing, demanded combinations of properties which no existing structural metal could provide. Some problems could be solved by developing special alloys of aluminium or magnesium (still used by Metals Division for large quantities of fuel cans) the remainder only by turning to metals never before used outside the laboratory. Fortunately, the first of these - zirconium - was not required in large quantities until the Division had solved most of the problems involved in titanium manufacture, and it was soon found that the new techniques could be adapted quite readily to zirconium production. So it came about that, within three years of launching wrought titanium, Metals Division was able to make available on a commercial scale a second new and important structural metal.
Since then the Division has come to know still more unusual metals - hafnium, niobium, vanadium, beryllium. The last named - perhaps the most intransigent of all structural metals - is not, alas, amenable to processing techniques used for zirconium and other nuclear metals. To produce it, Metals Division had to build a separate factory - the first of its kind in Europe - and to establish processes and working conditions never before encountered in the metal industry. Only seven years ago (1954/5) almost nobody at Witton outside Research Department knew anything of these exotic strangers in the world of metals. Today they are as commonplace as brass and copper, and only visitors spare a second glance for the much-publicised titanium, zirconium and beryllium plants.


The development of techniques to produce membranes for isotope separation was particularly significant and I understand that some of the expertise for this came from the Kynoch Press, with its knowledge of printing techniques.


My own father had non-ferrous metal production responsibilities throughout the war and was no doubt heavily involved in some of these abstruse manufacturing challenges. The only reference I recall his ever having made to the latter was when he told me, much later, that he had put forward a proposal for the manufacture of these membranes – possibly before the final solution was established – but that his suggested method had not been practicable. And of course, I never cross-examined him further, being too intent on getting on with my own life until it was too late.

There must still be people around who were involved in this initial work between 1940 and 1945 - some of it crucial to how the world's history evolved - and how nice it would be if one of them turned out to be a member of this forum. And in the meantime what a story it is which emerges from a bloke arf-inching a small rod offcut in around 1943!

Chris
 
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Kynoch or ICI

Hi

What a great article Chris M.
I feel from your info theres a lot more on this Subject.
Unfortunately I was only a youngster there but I fortunate
to work in the Engineering Division.
In essence we covered the whole factory site with its Various
problems.
An area covered During the War from my colleague Ray
Jennings was the of Armour Piercing Techniques.
British Tanks were being blown appart so Kynochs set
about producing Laminates of Various Materials.
It was a series of Trial and error but Ray thought that
many Soldiers lives were saved by this work.
I agree with you very little is written about this Factory
the skills of the men who helped to produce War Materials.
On a lighter side I had quite a period of time overhauling
Lightening Zip Machines.
Intially we would trudge over to the Zip plant to get the
Machines out for Service. Clearly a trip we relished
thousands of Ladies in that plant. The Engineering
Workshops was a Monastic Order.
To remove the Dieheads from the Machine involved
the removal of 4 Giant Allen headed bolts. Approx
1 inch x 4 inches.
In those days it was by brute Strenth. A huge Allen Key
with a series of Tubes were fitted. The next minute all
I can rember is waking up in the Abulance Room.
Apparently I was seen flying through the Air and hitting my Head
against the Machine.
After such Incidents the Saftey Officers take over.
A new tool was made cost several thousand pounds even in those
days.

Mike Jenks
 
Fascinating memories, Mike.

The trouble with a firm of the size and complexity of this one is that even a detailed official history only glosses over much of the activity. Products which the outside world knows about and understands will always get a mention and sometimes there will be other sources of information on them – like explosives (earlier Kynoch), zip fasteners (Lightning Fasteners), sporting and military ammunition, coinage (The Mint), Sunbeam motor bikes and self-sealing aircraft fuel tanks (both John Marston/Marston Excelsior), caburettors (Amal) and exotic new metals.

What tends to get smothered is the old non-ferrous metal-bashing activities which were the Company’s mainstay for many years and on which thousands of Birmingham people toiled over decades; and in some cases for all their working lives - rolling, extruding, drawing and so on. Within these activities there must have been constant evolution and development, including that of the laminated materials which you mention. Little of this appears to have been recorded – not glamorous enough and who is interested now anyway? - and, even less, still remembered. Which is why the sort of memories from your friend Ray Jennings – as well as those of your own of day-to-day life there - are so interesting and important.

The early work at Witton on the British "Tube Alloys" project – the latter having no doubt helped the Americans to develop a nuclear weapon as early as they did – was too secret to have left any or many records behind it. I believe that IMI has little on it and so all that activity, engaging the minds and hands of many and of incalculable significance, is probably lost and gone for ever. Unless, of course, someone on a forum like this can offer anything. We live in hope!

(I’ve mentioned earlier in this thread that there is a potted history of the company, and information on life there in WW2, here: https://www.staffshomeguard.co.uk/KOtherInformationKynoch.htm )

Chris
 
Ref IMI and Zirconium Products

As stated earlier I started work at Kynochs in 1952 but in approx 1963 moved from Lightning Zips to Light Metal Components to specifically work on the processes of fabricating Zirconium components, My expertise at the time being metal bashing. i worked closely with New Metals research people on the manipulation of Zirconium that was used for support brackets for fuel elements in Nuclear Reactors. All I can say is that the work was hard going. Zirconium can be likened to Stainless steel in its properties albeit also had properties that were directly opposite to lead which gave it its value in Reactors. In machined form, as swarf or powder it could easily set alight and if water was used became an explosive force that could destroy a concrete floor.Components were made for Berkely, Sizewell, Bradwell ,Hinkley, Hunterston Power Stations and came to an end when the stations were phased out.
I also spent time in kynoch mint, in the main updating and automating the plant to improve productivity, usually by replacing labour with auto equipment which was so successful that new minting machines were developed by Cincinnatti that were used to update the royal Mint and B'ham Mint
Whilst the Royal Mint concentrated on UK currency, Kynochs and B'ham Mint concentrated on foreign currency as sub contractors to the royal Mint.When decimal currency was introduced in the UK both Kynochs and B'ham mint worked on the blanks particularly the 50p and the 20p coin blanks which went to Royal Mint for striking. Because the blanks could still be used in slot machines any rejected through the production process had to go through a set of rolls that turned them into crinkly shaped crisps, to stop them going through cigarette machines for example.Hope the above is of interest.
Did you know that CFactory produced 50 mill Parker Pen Refill tubes ready for the ink to be put in per annum?
 
Ref IMI and Zirconium Products

hi

Remarkable memories of this vast and Copmlex organisation.
Exactley right on Zirconium.
In the Workshops Test pieces of this remarkable metal had to
be made for testing the properties were correct.
Often on the Milling Machine it would vitually explode.
The Miller was suurounded with a Bags of powder which the operator
covered the fire with. What they did for £20 a week.
Kynoch Mint the Dies were completed in the Workshops.
As you say a number of decimal coins were out earlier.
Im not sure what we did with the coins. It was all
commonwealth Stuff Australian New Zealand etc.
The front face was identical to our own but the back had
their own symbols.
Im sure security hung around the area where the intial coins were
run off for approval prior to going to the Mint.

Mike Jenks
 
Following the road layout of the 1940s or 1950s….

I’m coming out of Birmingham through Perry Barr. I have forked right into Aldridge Road, past the Birchfield Harriers stadium on my left and with Wellhead Lane and Holford Drive coming in from the right. On the left hand side of the road, not very much beyond Holford Drive and well short of the Boar’s Head, (roughly opposite Ellison’s, if I remember correctly) there is a single-storey brick factory building set at right angles to the road. Over its front door is an ICI roundel.

Can anyone please tell me the function of that building at the time? I assume it has long since disappeared.

(Please amaze me as I am fully expecting to score a duck on this one!)

Chris
 
ICI Kelly's 1950

...
here is bridge over River
Tame
I.C.I. Metals Ltd.
(branch works)
265 Marsh Wm. Hickson
267 Jones Alfd. Bernard
269 Holland Douglas
271 Amos Montague
273 Humphreys Albt. Edwd
275 Payne Fras. V
281 Allen & Staeey,newsagts
here in Church rd

 
Hi Chris,Kelly's 1949 shows it as I.C.I.Metals Ltd. (branch works)

John,You beat me by 1 min

Colin
 
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Thanks for the two welcome quick singles followed by a ripple of applause from Moma P in the pavilion. These confirm that the building was indeed associated with the nearby Metals Division activity, rather than the vast ICI as a whole.

What I am looking for now is the concluding boundary - what was it used for?

(It seems strange that Metals Division should require a separate building only a few hundred yards away from its own huge site with its almost unlimited space. Perhaps it was a carryover from some wartime activity? Lurking in the back of my mind is now the thought of Lightning Fastener, but I may well be entirely wrong).

Chris
 
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