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Key hill

stars

stars

master brummie
Hi Brian I went to Key Hill cemetery this morning, but the entrance gate was locked, only the little gate was open. With no where to park I was unable to tend to my gt grandparent grave. I wonder if you know why it was locked and also is there any truth in a rumour going around that they want to close it and are trying to trace relatives. As I say it is only rumours. Hope you are well and hope to see you at the meet.

Regards Stars (Eric)
 
Hi Stars, if Brian doesn't notice your post you could email the Jewellery Quarter Trust Group, www.jqrt.org to see what they think. I'm sure there was trouble recently with the local workers using the Cemetery as a free car park and causing problems to relatives etc. who were trying to tend graves.
I haven't heard about any closure of the Cemetery, I think it's "listed" so I don't think they could take any more of it but who can tell these days!
rosie.
 
There are plans to renovate Key Hill and Warstone Lane cemeteries, and some money has been obtained I understand. I am sure they are not going to close them. I think efforts to contact relatives might be in order for them to know about the renovationsi
 
Hi Rosie and Mike
Thanks for your replies. As said I thought it might be just gossip. I to heard that they had got funds
for doing up key hill and warstone lane, and thanks for the link Rosie.
Regards Stars
 
Hi Stars - Don't get on the main site often nowadays, and have not heard a thing from any Friends for a couple of years now.
However Some cheap publicity stunts by JQRG have resulted in the gates being closed and often locked more nowadays. There were people parking in there, who were not visiting then cemetery, because the Council closed off the free car park in Key Hill, and put it up for sale - it's now just closed off and overgrown - so wouldn't have hurt to leave it in use!
There are a few parking soaces in Key Hill itself, or Key Hill Drive, but these fill up very quickly. Otherwise park across the locked gates!
Seems one of the JQRG actually visited the Cemetery! Rae occasion, and didn't want to squeeze past riff raff, so went for publicity, so now only those few people with keys can park in there, once in a blue moon. Than they close up behind them! Passed by a few months ago, and 2 were digging in KH, with their motor inside and gates shut - obviously now a private domain.

The Council were working on a Heritage Lottery grant, many years ago, which I understand is gradually progressing, but am unaware of the details of what was finally asked for and/or approved. Drainage & Paths were a main concern - Pathways were relaid I the past with unsuitable materials which wash into the soak away drains in heavy rain and clog the up - I have cleared them so often, but they soon clog up again with the next rains. I doubt it would be possible to connect to Sewers, because the drains that are there usually go to small sump and than a pipe goes a small way into the Grave area's where the water than soaks into the ground / graves. You couldn't really dig everyone up to lay drainage below them!

It may be worth a complaint to JQRG asking how the Disable access for all is supposed to work, now that they have buggered up access for all, but the mighty?

Contacting any relatives of people in KH would be almost impossible - all they could do is put an advert in local newspapers like they did when they dug some up for the Metro - but relatives no longer live in the area, many not even in the country - and few take the local papers!
Bri
 
Hi Brian, I hope you are well. We haven't been to the Cemeteries for a long time now due to health issues. I was hoping to go as soon as the weather improves but if that top gate is closed it will be very inconvenient! Do they still open the lower gate I wonder?
Last time we went past Warstone there was a barrier up, but that road's not so bad for parking.
I'm not a member of JQRT but used to be a "Friend of Key Hill and Warstone Lane Cemeteries" (We had the Hilliar Grave re-erected with your guidance!)
Some of my family were moved for the Metro!
Best wishes,
rosie.
 
Hi Rosie,
soory to hear about your health - it's getting to us all these days!
I assume Stars was talking about the Icknield St entrance as he got in the little gate. Last Time I passed by the KH Gates was closed but a car was inside and there were some people digging furtively. AS I was on way somewhere, I didn't stop to try and chat through the gates!
Last time I passed WL, the barrier was locked, although I think you can still enter & leave by the Icknield st entrance - unless they have reinstalled the upright bar there!

Seems some people only want access for their private club and NOT Access for All. There was free parking at the lower end of Pitsford st adjacent WL, and I'm hoping there are some spaces on Saturday for the Meet up, but I imagine they get taken quite quickly.

Brian
 
Hi Bri
Thanks for the information. I have made a couple of calls, and will be making a few more.
If access is being denied to visit and tend to you relatives grave and access being denied for a disabled persons car, something seems wrong. Hope you are well. Regards Stars
 
We were told last year there is a three year project for the cemeteries starting in 2016, along with other projects in the Jewellery Quarter. There have already been big changes at the Pen Museum. Seems all part of a bigger plan.
 
Key Hill Brian said:
Sounds like it's all coming together - will keep an eye open!
Click to expand...

"Will keep an eye open" Always struck me as a strange saying. Why not keep them both open & see better. Likewise, " I`m awfully afraid" or "I`m terribly sorry" What a weird language we have, although i think you have to be a bit posh to use those last two sayings.
 
rosie said:
We haven't been to the Cemeteries for a long time now due to health issues. Best wishes,
rosie.
Click to expand...
Hi Rosie. There was a certain irony in that statement as you only get to a cemetery when there has been a health issue. I know that wasn't what you meant and sincerely hope that you improve your health and stay away from cemeteries, apart from the occasional visit. Best wishes. Dave.
 
Thanks Dave! Things have been very difficult but we're struggling on!
Key Hill Cemetery is such a beautiful place to visit, and we have so many relatives in Warstone too.
Best Wishes.
rosie.
 
I was recently looking at the JQRT site as I have several ancestors buried at Key Hill. Seeing that there is a facility to search the grave number, I entered one that I have - namely Section H, Grave No. 10, and was shocked to see that there are 575 people buried in this grave. Is it normal to have so many people buried in one grave? Presumably this would be a paupers grave?? I also checked another grave that I have and found 166 buried in that one. I had no idea that so many people could be buried in one grave!

Judy
 
Judy - There are NO Paupers graves in Key Hill - This has been stated many times.
All graves had to be paid for - it was a Privately owned Cemetery - a Business.
However, you get what you pay for - and if cannot afford your very own personal private Vault, you can at least buy a space in a much larger Public Vault - Similarly not everyone can own a 20 Bedroom detached mansion - some have to live in a 20 story Tower Block alongside hundreds of unknown non-related Neighbours!
There are many such graves in KH & WL - WL has the highest amount of Burials in one grave - (another 100 more than H10) mainly due to the hundreds of Infant & still Born deaths, whose burials were undertaken by the Council, where price really matters (at least at the working end of the system).
If memory serves me right H 10 is a vault on the semi circle to the left of the Catacombs at KH - These are deep underground vaults, a coupe of which have had subsidence and temporary openings due to soil slippage in the not too distant past.
Some of these Vaults have memorial stones on the wall, but only a very small number of those buried within have their names on as it was an additional cost.
The burial Registers were photographed and computerised c/o BMSGH Volunteers, the sequential numbers of each Burial show the order they were interred.
 
Hi brian
I know you said there is no paupers graves in key hill but as our friend said there was head stones with a list as long as your arm with different family names on it and I know it was a case many years ago
I got this information from the records of of the old central library stating such persons of the commu city
Whom was in poverish conditions was hurried there way back in the 1800s to the very early 1900;s
And also one of my relatives being a held from the courts of Islington five ways way back in the late
1800s early 1900 s was a paupers burial at key hill I found this on a index filing cabinet
It was a small filing cabinet standing on a table by the burials of churches stood
There was about 200 index cards with this filing cabinet and mine was on its own name as William jelf
Paupers at key hill I went to key hill armed with a map found and found some head stones as I said
And what they stated but the ones with mine had been removed from the grounds when they
Started to clear the old graves of the 17/1800s and I believe as a kid these graves was just by the far end of the
Railway lines wall coming from the hockley heading towards the city they was cleared in the early
1900.s along with the crematoriam building it was that side they virualy cleared every grave stone from the cemetery in the 1955/8 but they did do paupers graves as the early held was a paupers one there ,
Best wishes astonian,,,
 
Many thanks for your detailed reply Brian. Your information was just what I wanted as I couldn't fathom how so many people would come to be buried in one grave. It is truly amazing. The vaults must be very deep to accommodate so many. I just assumed they were paupers graves with that number of people in them. My 3 x Gt.Grandmother is buried in Corridor 2 Vault, and it is her son in H10. I have others in a private grave with only 3 people in (Purdie) plus my 2 x Gt.Grandmother in G3 and 2 x Gt.Grandfather in G2. As with many others on this forum I also have quite a few other ancestors apart from these buried at Key Hill. One again thank you for your help.

Judy
 
Hi Judy & Astonian,
There may be 'Paupers' buried in KH & WL but they are NOT Paupers Graves - The Graves had to be paid for - Only staff were sometimes allowed a 'free' grave. They have had the cheapest burials possible - but they were paid for - they were not buried for free - which is the definition of a Paupers Grave. They may have come from Workhouse as a pauper without a penny to their name, but the Workhouse had to pay for the Burial. The large Double sided headstones in KY are the centre of 4 graves - All Public - which means you share a grave with other members of the public - They are 11 rows deep with 5 in a row - like big can of sardines, albeit with a layer of soil etc, between each layer of people - more like a Bread & Butter Pudding.
The graves in WL right next to the wall of the Mint Building go down as far as the Mint ground level - when you are standing at the wall you are looking into 3rd floor windows. You can see how deep the graves go, after many years, the bodies in the graves settle down, so the graves are than topped up with new burials and left for 50+ years again until they have settled, etc. The Burials in the Graves go from 1860 right up to 1960.
Even today, if a person is found dead with no money, the Council has to pay (basic cost) for the funeral, so although classed as a Paupers funeral - it is still paid for - it is not a free burial by the Church or Parish, which, I understand is the official description.

Lots of names on a headstone does not mean paupers - Some vaults are private and have lots of burials in them - all are from the same family. Public graves can also have headstones with lots of names of unrelated people on them - But the families had to pay extra for the inscription as well having paid for the Burial. Some of the cheapest graves, which are multi-occupied are NOT allowed headstones - If you cannot afford a decent grave - you obviously cannot afford a headstone - so therefore not allowed. KH Section S which is unmarked area alongside the Railway wall has 24 Public Graves, of which 3 double sided headstones only were saved and moved to the Memorial Garden above the Catacombs - But the names on them are paid for as the graves were - poor, but not stoney broke.
 
Thank you again Brian for the very detailed explanation of the way burials had to be paid for. I now understand the way it works. I had assumed with so many people buried in one grave that it was a 'paupers' grave. I now know better!

Judy
 
Hello Astonian, I noticed you refer to the to the "crematorium" building. Just to clarify, there has never been a crematorium at Key Hill, or Warstone, but they both had Chapels which have been demolished.
rosie.
 
Some of the older members will surely remember that sparrows generally refrained from pecking at freshly immerging peas in the veg garden. If they were somewhat of a pest then 4 or 5 strands of black cotton would deter them, no trouble !! Not so nowadays . I have to put wire netting over my peas which eventually the sparrows learn to poke their heads through. This is followed by plastic netting supported slightly above with garden canes. I sometimes wonder why I bother ,but I do feed the birds which give me great pleasure , and their is great delight in picking and eating fresh peas from the pod. Of course the grandchildren also indulge so we get more frequent visits.!
 

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Hi Brian,
Yes again from myself like to say thank you for your very interesting information about the paupers graves
Now I really know exactly what a paupers grave was and the entailments of it
The word pauper I heard used as a kid and when I picked up that index card in the filing box
And dead it I was surprised to learn of it as I have learnt the ancestors of the jelfs my family tree
Had money and wealth and I thought why a paupers funeral ,
My mother died many years ago so I could not asked about the funeral arrangements
But what I did know when a kid walking back from aunty Winnie Phelps with my mother
Whom was really exciled from her family from 1953 onwards because her mother died of cancer
Her relatives tibbood her ,even her father Ernest held but we was passing ickneild crem and cemetery
And she said one of the jelfs was burried and she did not know there christian names
Was buried in there that night whilst walking back to kingedwards road by springhill Ladywood
Well at least you have sorted it and explained to me about the paupers grave and I understand now clearly
In my mind many thanks Brian, best wishes Alan,,,,,,Astonian,,,,,,
 
Hi Rosie
Many thanks for coming through and correcting me on that subject, yes I always thought it was
Over the years I used to pass the cemetery quite regular day and night
And yes I do recall them knocking down the chapel in Ickneild street in that period
I was really shocked when one day I walked passed and it had disappeared
Mind you in the evenings walking past it did look Haunting in the shadows of the reflect tion of the street
Lighting and the pub directly across the road to the com
Thanks again Rosie best wishes Alan,,,,,Astonian,,,,,,
 
Hi Alan, I wish I had seen those Chapels before they were demolished!
I found out too late about my Great Grandmother being buried at Key Hill and she was moved to make way for the Metro, so was her daughter who died from TB. Great Grandfather is in a public grave in plot C near where they strengthened the wall, at least he wasn't disturbed.
Best Wishes,
rosie.
 
Hi Rosie
Yes the one in ickneild street was a very nicely built in a large white stone brick work
It was built on the high ground ,
I do not know whether or not you was familiar with that cemetery ,but in those days
Right up until the late sixtys the cemetery had huge great railings mounted on a four feet wall
All across the frontage in green huge railings with two huge front gates with brick pillars
Either side of the gates they was larger than the front railings coming along Ickneild street
Right up to the rail way bridge and that wall you have mentioniond
On the entrance into the cemetery grounds, it was a high rise drive up the paths
And at the top of the paths was the chapel ,and you had to walk up about four or five steps
To reach the two front big long doors which was glass doors
You could see the chapel from the front gates as you was passing
It was a beautiful look at from the gates it had that roman style look and very Gothic looking as well
To be honest Rosie this cemetery and the chapel was discussed on hear about 12 years back now
On this forum and I do know that some where or some one did have a picture of this chapel
And put it on but obvisiuosly they was lost or may be an member is no longer with us whom may have it
Still not to worry I have the memory of it in my head ,as I said I past it every day of the years
Of living up spring hill and traveling to ickneld school every day either on my bus tokens
Or walking past to and from school three times a day
Oh ,and when I was older trapping down to the pubs of key hill coming back half cut
In my younger days , that was then image run pubs and clubs but I never did drink like most gathers did
In the business I was a tea total and still is,
Rosei , best of wishes as always Alan,,,,, Astonian,,,,,
 
Hi Alan, what a shame it's gone. I have seen various photos on the JQRT website as well as the Forum.
The gates were refurbished recently, they look beautiful.
Best Wishes,
rosie.
 
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