Joseph Chamberlain

[Wendy]

I totaly agree we need to mention all these great men and women from Birmingham, although I have read about some on other threads. Here is a picture of Joseph Chambelain's grave at Key Hill cemetery. He was offered a state funeral and burial at Westminster Abbey but chose to be with his family at Key Hill.

 

[mike jenks]

Mr Chamberlain

hi

Im not sure on this one or three. Struggled a bit with
Louisa Anne Ryland. Lot help from Cromwell on that one.
We are certainly straying into some very stormy Irish waters
here.
Its difficult to pull these people out in 2007 from the mid 19th Century
without staying into some very heavy Political debates.
The Irish question still rages on today although the work over the
last few years seems to have eased some of the tensions.
I only raise the point has my great great Grandfather came with his
wife fron Ireland and settled in Aston. His grandson my Grandfather
fought from 1914 to 1918 in France. Sadley he died of the Spanish
Flue that ravaged Europe in the early 1920's. Strange how one
could go through all that and be killed by a Virus.
The three Chamberlins Joseph the Father his son Austen and his
half brother Neville in one way and another dominated British Politics,
for nearly 80 years. Sadley Neville left in disgrace over Munich
and the early events of the 2nd War.

Its hard to put a hand on Joseph claim to fame in National Politics
Churchill in his book describes him as a radical that moved from the left to the right. It was as Lord Mayor of Birmingham in my opinion his best
days were. He was the founding father of modern Local Goverment. To build large areas of Brum clearing vast Slum areas with vast new infrastructure
Water/ Gas etc he borrowed the lot and put the Bill on the Local
Ratepayers. As a Liberal this was fought hard by the Conservatives
who labelled him as a Dictator.
Thanks to Joseph as Lord Mayor of Birmingham he left his mark on
Brum with the huge Civic Buildings we have today.
Life in the terrible slums of Mid Victorian Brum was vastley improved.
The death rates thanks to the Birmingham Water Board and the
Elan Valley project we have the finest water in England (Wales)
This is the tribute to the man
Well done Joseph

Mike

 

[Oisin]

This thread prompted me to do a bit of digging and I found this https://tinyurl.com/3bfkj8

What strikes me is how intermingled/intermarried the Chamberlain family was with the Kenricks - Joseph having married two Kenrick women. Personally, I had some dealings with the late Hugh Kenrick, who just happen to be married to Anne Chamberlain, which just shows how little things change in those circles.

 

[O.C.]

The Chamberlains in Politics

Nice one Oisin


The Chamberlains in Politics
JOSEPH CHAMBERLAIN, A British statesman, born in London in 1836, and educated at University College School, London. He became a member of a firm of screw-makers at Birmingham, but gave up active connection with the business in 1874. He early became prominent in Birmingham both in connection with civic and political affairs, being an advanced Radical and an able speaker, was chairman of the school board, and thrice in succession mayor of the city (1874-76). In 1876 he entered Parliament as a representative of Birmingham, and at the general election of 1880 he was chosen for the same city along with Bright and Muntz. Under Gladstone's premiership he now became President of the Board of Trade, and a Cabinet Minister, and was able to pass the Bankruptcy Act, though he failed with his Merchant Shipping Bill.
In the Gladstone Government of 1886 he was President of the Local Government Board; but his leader's Irish policy caused him to resign, and afterwards, as member for West Birmingham, he was one of the most pronounced members of the Liberal-Unionist party. As Colonial Secretary from 1895 to 1903, he was one of the first to perceive the importance for Great Britain of a closer bond

SIR AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN, British politician, eldest son of Rt. Hon. Joseph Chamberlain, born in 1863, and educated at Rugby and Trinity College, Cambridge. He entered Parliament as Liberal-Unionist member for East Worcestershire in 1892, and was Civil Lord of the Admiralty from 1895 to 1900. In 1900 he became Financial Secretary to the Treasury, in 1902 Postmaster-General, and to 1903 Chancellor of the Exchequer. He was Secretary of State for India, From 1915-17; M.P for West Birmingham 1914-1937 (a member of the War Cabinet) 1918-19; Chancellor of the Exchequer, 1919-21; and became Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the; House of Commons in March 1921. He became Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and Deputy Leader of the House of Commons In Nov. 1924. and was made K.G. in 1925.
He was largely responsible for the signing of the Locarno Pact, after he rejected the Geneva Protocol. These included the Rhine Guarantee Pact; treaties of arbitration between Germany and former enemy states; guarantee treaties between France, Poland, and Czechoslovakia; and German entry into the League of Nations. He received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1926 for his efforts to support the status quo and peaceful relations in central Europe. He was Foreign Secretary until 1929.
Chamberlain died on March 16, 1937 in London.

ARTHUR NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN, Born in Birmingham March 18th 1869 he was the younger son of Joseph Chamberlain and half –brother of Sir Austen Chamberlain. Educated at Rugby, he was in business in the West Indies and afterwards taking part in the public life of Birmingham. In 1915 he was Lord Mayor of the City. In 1916 he was appointed Director of National Service, and in 1918 he entered Parliament as M.P. for a Birmingham Division.
He was Postmaster-General, Minister of Health, and then Chancellor of the Exchequer in the Unionist ministry of 1922-24, and throughout the ministry of 1924-29 was a most energetic and successful Minister of Health. Chairman of the Conservative party organization, 1930-31. he then became Chancellor again.
1938 Chamberlain signs a deal with Hitler in Munich which allows Germany to annexe German speaking parts of Czechoslovakia. 1939 Chamberlain told the Nation for the second time in many peoples lives the country was at war with Germany

After the Great War Germany was a country under occupation till 1926
"Locarno" marked the spiritual end of the war
The man that bought this about was Mr Austen Chamberlain at the conference that was held in which the words “Enemy” was not spoken or written.
For his share in bringing about a new spirit in European diplomacy Chamberlain was given a knighthood and K.G

Postcard from c1905 Highbury Hall built in 1878 insert shows Joseph and his eldest son Austen

 

[Wendy]

Great photo's Cromwell I bet my gran was in that crowd she loved Mr Chamberlain, she named my father George Arthur Neville and his brother Walter Austin they were always called Austin and Neville.

Here's a nice photo of Joseph with his third wife Mary.

 

[sylviasayers]

Mr. Chamberlain

I have always felt that Neville Chamberlain has been badly maligned for waving "the peace in our time" paper when descending the aircraft steps. He did what he thought was an honourable deal, I just wished (like millions of others) that the Germans had honoured the deal. He certainly had more integrity than the politicans in power today.

 

[mike jenks]

Chamberlain

Hi

Well Cromwell has moved a tank into play.
Sadly remembered for Peace in our time
villified by his party and now used by all
comentators where non-agression is
used. Used extensively in the War against
Iraq by Blair and Bush once any opposition
surfaced.
Ive attatched a document that puts Neville
in his correct position.

mike

 

[Wendy]

Heres a photo of Stephen James Lloyd great grandson of Neville Chamberlin at Key Hill Cemetery open day 2005. I was very pleased to meet him he was a lovely man and the weather was awful but he still came. The Kenricks, Nettlefolds and Chamberlins are all in Key Hill. The photo includes the Friends of Key Hill i'm the one in the hat and red dress and Dr Chris Upton who did the cemetery walks.

 

[Beryl M]

Chamberlain believed the German government had legitimate grievances and had been badly treated by the Allies after World War 1 that needed to be addressed.. He also thought that by agreeing to some of the demands being made by Adolf Hitler of Germany and Benito Mussolini of Italy, he could avoid a European war.

International tension increased when Adolf Hitler began demanding that the Sudetenland in Czechoslavakia should be under the control of the German government. In an attempt to solve the crisis, the heads of the governments of Germany, Britain, France and Italy met in Munich in September, 1938.

On 29th September, 1938, Chamberlain, Adolf Hitler, Edouard Daladier and Benito Mussolini signed the Munich Agreement which transferred to Germany the Sudentenland, a fortified frontier region that contained a large German-speaking population.

The Munich Agreement was popular with most people in Britain because it appeared to have prevented a war with Nazi Germany. However, some politicians, including Winston Churchill and Anthony Eden attacked the agreement. These critics pointed out that no only had the British government behaved dishonourably, but it had lost the support of Czech Army one of the best in Europe.

In March, 1939, the German Army seized the rest of Czechoslovakia. In taking this action Adolf Hitler had broken the Munich Agreement. Chamberlain now realized that Hitler could not be trusted and his appeasement politcy now came to an end. After the invasion of Poland Chamberlain was forced to declare war on Germany.

On the outbreak of the Second World War public opinion polls showed that Chamberlain's popularity was at an all time low.......

However, members of the House of Commons saw him as an uninspiring war leader. In May 1940 members of the Labour Party and Liberal Party refused to serve in his proposed National Government. Chamberlain resigned and was replaced by Winston Churchill. He was appointed as Lord President of the Council in Churchill's government but ill health forced him to leave office in October 1940, and he died soon afterwards.

Personally I think Neville Chamberlain was very much maligned – when he did his best to keep Britain out of a Second World War.

 

[O.C.]

My view on Neville Chamberlain is this...
Austen Chamberlain was a much respected elderly statesman and learned a lot from his father he could see how Germany was developing leading up to the the conflict we went through and tried his hardest to warn the people about the dangers of Hitler and I am sure he must have spoken to his Half Brother Nevillle.....
Austen died in 1937 before WW2 started
Neville was haunted by the amount of men that died in the Great War and vowed it must never happen again..........Hitler exploited this weakness and betrayed Chamberlain so Neville Chamberlain had no choice but to lead the country into war ...he must have died heartbroken the next day after Coventry was Blitzed

 

[wessex]

Re: Mr. Chamberlain

I have always felt that Neville Chamberlain has been badly maligned for waving "the peace in our time" paper when descending the aircraft steps. He did what he thought was an honourable deal, I just wished (like millions of others) that the Germans had honoured the deal. He certainly had more integrity than the politicans in power today.

The winners always write the history,and Churchill was the winner here,hence Neville gets knocked a lot.
Really his actions need to be put in historical perspective.The Great War had been such a catastrophe that many did what they could to avoid war,and indeed he did declare war,after all options for peace had failed.
If Bush and Blair had followed the same philosophy then hundreds of thousands more innocent human beings would still be alive today.

 

[Astoness]

hi folks....just come accross this article about joselph chamberlain in a 1995 old brum paper it comes with a birmingham improvement scheme map......charlie asked the question earlier did ann st come under it and looking at it i would say so...new st starts at where it says number 1...

lyn...

(Article unfortunately Missing)

 

[mikejee]

Lyn
I don't thin k it did. I have a copy of a very similar map (without the numbers imposed and the shading, but otherwise the same including the title) where there there is an extra bit just off the top of your scan which says boundary of area is within the broad dotted line , which in your map is the shaded area. As my map is too big to scan in one, I've taken yours and filled in the shading in colour to make it clearer. My colour shading is a bit irregular and Signalman would have kittens if he saw it, but it doesn't cover Ann St. Of course mine could be an earlier effort, but i don't think sio ,a s it came with Briggs' "history of birmingham"
Mike

 

[Charlie]

So Ann Street wasn't part of his improvement scheme then. I know it housed some terrible slums at the time though, that's why I thought Joe might have razed 'em to the ground - he was good at that, bless 'im.

 

[mikejee]

Charlie
i think at least some might have already gone by then . The map shows the municipal offices are there then, which take up a fair chunk of Ann St.
mike

 

[guilbert53]

I have posted this append below on a couple of places on this web site as there are so many forums not sure which one is best (so sorry for the duplicate posts)

Books about Joseph Chamberlain.

I bought a set of books about Joseph Chamberlain in a charity shop about a year ago. Set of 4 volumes in hardback, written by Louis Creswicke. I think published in 1904.

Are these books common or fairly rare? I am not looking to make a lot of money on them and quite happy to give them to a university of other place of learning if they are useful for research.

I found what I think are the books listed on another web site (see below), and this describes my set perfectly. Anyone interested (as I say, not trying to make money, just want them to go to the best home)

THE LIFE OF THE RIGHT HONOURABLE JOSEPH CHAMBERLAIN (4 Volume set); Creswicke, Louis : London, Caxton Publishing Company, 1904. 4 vols large format red cloth with gilt arms on covers, gilt titles and decoration on spines. Pp208 + 200 + 212 + 558, extensive series of portraits, cartoons and other illustrations. All volumes in Very Good condition. All sound and tight with all outer and inner hinges undamaged, small mark on cover of volume I, all block edges slightly soiled with a few spots, few spots on prelims and end pages, internally tight and clean. Detailed biography of leading Birmingham based Liberal politician, Joseph Chamberlain. These 4 volumes look unread and in super condition. Look very handsome on shelf
Ref 103330 : £120.00

 

[BrianDicks]

This is probably a bit of a long shot, but do you know if any relative of THE Chamberlain family was related to the soft furnishings store Chamberlain, King and Jones, of Union Street ? The owners/directors included Emily Chamberlain and Joseph Butler Chamberlain.

And I don't suppose Dr Upton has any ancestry to a William Albert Upton, once of Sutton Grange, died 1908, and of Upton's printers ?

 

[Stitcher]

We need people like him now.

 

[paul stacey]

Could not get a visual image of "Chamberlain Doc" but I still say that Neville's generation were so appauled by the loss of life in WW1 that they did everything not see another European war.
paul

 

[Old Boy]

Hi All.

What a pity that the Lord Mayor could not find the time to write a short letter oif condolence to the bereaved rather than just fill in the spaces on a preprinted card.

Old Boy

 

[Astonian]

hi old boy
yes i certainly agree on that i bet old borriss would have done one, i have been reading todays paper the mail
and the goverment cannot decide what a birmingham mayor can do alsois boundrys what a joke this city is ;
especialy with our city councillors i would like to saymore ; but i will clam up on the subject and may be postie should close this thread
before it might get of hand so to speak ; astonian

 

[Stitcher]

--------
These are from todays newspaper.

 

[Wendy]

I found this lovely picture of the Chamberlain family today with some dignitaries at Highbury,in my copy of Faces and Places sorry it's a bit crooked but the book is very fragile. Joe looks so young here.

 

[Charlie]

What a lovely photo Wendy. He certainly had well connected friends! If walls have ears I wish Highbury Hall could speak.

 

[Vivienne14]

Great photo Wendy. Mr and Mrs C look totally comfortable with the process of being photographed whilst the Duchess of St Albans and Lady Palmer look very uneasy! In fact the Duchess looks like she'd much rather be somewhere else. There's also an image of a male in a hat reflected in the window behind the group. It looks like he's standing on the balcony alongside the photographer perhaps? Maybe he's the photographer's assistant, or maybe one of Chamberlain's advisers. Black and white photos are a wonderful medium for portraits but I so wish we could see the richness of the colours of their clothing. Thanks for posting Wendy. Viv.

 

[devonjim]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37053114
Interesting item on Newsnight last night. Well it made a change from watching bikes going round and round in circles!

 

[superdad3]

Mr. Chamberlain

I have always felt that Neville Chamberlain has been badly maligned for waving "the peace in our time" paper when descending the aircraft steps. He did what he thought was an honourable deal, I just wished (like millions of others) that the Germans had honoured the deal. He certainly had more integrity than the politicans in power today.

Posted a long time ago but thought this might be of interest:

I also think Chamberlain was unfairly maligned. when he returned from Munich he was hailed as a hero. This was the view of the folk at St Agnes Church, Moseley and new doors were installed as a peace offering paid for by Wm & Dora Webster. He was invited to attend the dedication but declined. Only discovered the letter when looking through odds and end at church & thought might be of interest.

 

[Astoness]

Posted a long time ago but thought this might be of interest:

I also think Chamberlain was unfairly maligned. when he returned from Munich he was hailed as a hero. This was the view of the folk at St Agnes Church, Moseley and new doors were installed as a peace offering paid for by Wm & Dora Webster. He was invited to attend the dedication but declined. Only discovered the letter when looking through odds and end at church & thought might be of interest.View attachment 178530View attachment 178531View attachment 178532

most interesting..thank you...i note that mr chamerlains name is not inscribed on the door so not many people would know who it was dedicated to

 

[superdad3]

most interesting..thank you...i note that mr chamerlains name is not inscribed on the door so not many people would know who it was dedicated to

Very true. The doors were installed when the main entrance was through the north porch and visible to everyone entering the church & every one at the time knew about them . Later the north porch became disused and the dedication was on the wrong side and knowledge of it faded from the congregations memory. I had been attending there for over 20 yrs before I became aware of the dedication and it was another 20 years before I found the letter which no one knew about. I just hope that it will be looked after. Sadly, the present vicar has no interest in the history of the church or its heritage. It's so easy for memories and heritage to be lost for ever. Thank goodness for the History Forum and like minded people.

 

[Astoness]

how very true superdad...cant argue with a word you have said ..so sad that the vicars of quite a few churches show no interest in the history of them but thanks for bringing the history of this door to our attention

lyn