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Johnson Maisie

C

Crinkmeister

proper brummie kid
I'm trying to trace my paternal grandmother, who was named as Maisie Johnson on the marriage certificate to my grandfather, Clifford Anson. They were married in 1919 and Maisies father was an Arthur Johnson and they lived at 99 Ash Road, Saltley. Maisies profession is stated as Shop assistant (jewellers). Now my problem is that I cannot find any birth record for a Maisie Johnson. The closest I can get is a Maisie Johnson on the 1911 census where she is recorded as a boarder in Kensington, but the birthplace is shown as Leeds and I think this is a red herring. However, there is an Arthur Johnson and family in the Birmingham area (Arthur was born in Wolvey in 1850) but the daughter who most closely fits with Maisies birthdate (1890) is called Mary (or is it May?) on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census. The census does show that Mary/May was a clerk in a jewellers, which fits because Clifford and his brother George and their father (also called George) were all in the jewellery trade. I wonder if Mary/May decided to call herself Maisie at some point? Electoral register is no help because women of her age were not allowed to vote! Is there any avenue I am missing? I'd welcome any suggestions!
 
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Re: Maisie Johnson

Do the witnesses give any clues?

And whose address is 99 Ash Road? You could check the electoral rolls for other members of the Johnson family living there if it's hers.
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

99 Ash Road is the Johnson abode, but no mention of a Maisie, only a Arthur, Mary and Albert living there. The witness names mean nothing to me at the moment. Thanks for the reply!
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

Sorry, is that the address she listed on the marriage certificate?

You could check the electoral rolls of Clifford and Maisie on the off chance a family member is living with them, which I know is tricky due to lack info on er's.
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

Does it state Maisie's age on Marriage Cert ? Females were allowed to vote in 1918, but had to be aged 30 years or over. This was lowered in to 21 years of age for both men and women in 1928. Depending on when Maisie was born she may not be on the Voting register before her marriage or before 1928. Maisie can be another name for May & Mary.
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

Yes MWS. 99 Ash Road is Maisies address at time of marriage (1919). I have checked electoral rolls after marriage - only Maisie and Clifford shown. I'm sure she was registered at birth by a different name, but how to prove it?!
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

What is her age on marriage cert ? What year is she first on the Electoral Register ?
 
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Re: Maisie Johnson

So wont be on Electoral Register with her parents before marriage.
1 --What is the first time you have found her on the Electoral Reg ( year ) ?
2 ---Do you have her death Cert or a year of Death ?
 
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Re: Maisie Johnson

Unsure if this is your Maisie Anson
Died in 1967 aged 77 years , giving birth year of approx 1890
Death Registered in Birmingham in 1967 –
Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death:77
REF: : 9C - 623
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

She will only appear on electoral register after she married because of her age. I think I have the right family - perhaps I should try to see what happened to the Mary Johnson who I believe called herself Maisie. If I can't find her, it adds weight to my belief, but maybe that's as good as I will get.
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

I found one of the witnesses on a 1911 census entry - doesn't help though. The other one - I can't find, so I'm assuming she married between 1911 and 1919.
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

Crinkmeister said:
She will only appear on electoral register after she married because of her age. I think I have the right family - perhaps I should try to see what happened to the Mary Johnson who I believe called herself Maisie. If I can't find her, it adds weight to my belief, but maybe that's as good as I will get.
Click to expand...

Can we have the year of the first sighting of her on the Electoral Reg Please ?
 
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Re: Maisie Johnson

Sorry I am confused .
Are we looking for Witnesses or Mary /May ?Maisie ?
If it is witnesses you do not appear to have given their names or have you mentioned their names in another post ?

I have already looked for her death in the indexes when I need not have done so, had you mentioned you had the death certificate.
Had you have mentioned this then you will know her birth year is estimated at 1890 this ties in with Mary / May , known as Maisie , most likely because her mother is also Mary /May.
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

Mary / May / Maisie – is most likely known by the latter name of Maisie because her mother s name is also Mary and they have not wanted to confuse the two.
(Names were not so official then, not as much documentation as there is today )

In 1911, giving birth year of 1890 -Mary / May is living with bother her parents Arthur and Mary at 10 Hubert Street, Duddeston.

This ties in with Maisie’s death details given in an earlier post of birth year of 1890.

You can apply to Birmingham Register Office stating you would like
Birth Certificate of Mary / May Johnson born c1890
and that you only want the certificate if the father is named Arthur Johnson whose occupation is coachman or similar occupation.
and her mother named Mary

Here is a possibility

Mary Johnson
Birth index –
Year 1890
Quarter – March
Birmingham
Ref: 6d-143

Unsure if you already have this marriage -
Arthur JOHNSON = Mary Keziah BAGGOTT
11 Aug 1874
St Marks Church , Birmingham
Groom Occ: Coachman.
Grooms father - Richard.
Brides Father - John
Both Bride & Groom address -28 Ingleby Street, St Marks , Birmingham.
By stating only one address ( both of same parish ) , saved paying for banns to be read out in both bride and grooms separate parishes .

Do let us know how you get on or if we can be of further help.
 
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Re: Maisie Johnson

Maisie is used as a diminutive of Margaret and there is a Mary Margaret Johnson born Aston,September quarter 1890.
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

Thanks very much for your help Bojalu! I eventually found the same parents as you did, so this seems to be the only solution. I also appreciate the comment made by you and Alberta that Mary could have called herself Maisie to avoid confusion with her mother.

I deliberately did not give every bit of information in my first post because I wanted to see if someone else would find a different solution. I'm sorry if this frustrated you - it was not my intention. The marriage witnesses were only mentioned because MWS suggested looking them up to see if it revealed any other clues - it didn't.

I spent a lot of time following my other "Maisie" who was born in Leeds (as Gladys Mary) but eventually found out that she married a Herbert Robertshaw and died up in Yorkshire somewhere, so I then knew that was a wrong 'un!

I do have some of the electoral roll info following marriage. This shows Maisie and Clifford moving around a little before they ended up in Sandwell Road. I wondered why you wanted to know when she first appeared on the electoral roll? I can certainy review that, but not sure how it helps.

Thanks again for your help - I really appreciate assistance from an expert.

Mike
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

Hi,

If known, then all info you have , helps us to help you.
Such as estimated year of birth,
The year of death sometimes will establish the year born.
By stating the actual year first on electoral register will also narrow down the estimated year born.
This helps to rule out others with the same name or similar name.

To establish who is in ones family, we have to research and be certain those that are not, by researching all possibilities, then eliminating. This is sometimes referred to as “ killing off.”

There are a number of other Mary’s or Mary Ann’s JOHNSON’s whose births are registered around the same time in Birmingham area.

Christening Records:
I can confirm, that -
Mary Margaret Johnson -Parents were Joseph & Ellen
Mary Johnson born b.1891- Parents William & Emma
Mary Ann Johnson b.1891- Parents John & Harriet
Mary Ann Johnson b1892 –Parents Thomas & Mary.
So the above can be ruled out.

I have not found a christening record for Mary / Maisie’s; this is most likely because they have not yet been transcribed for online viewing.

I have also looked as the surname JOHNSTON and other variations of this surname in case this had been originally recorded incorrectly or recently transcribed incorrectly.

I certainly would write to Birmingham Register office, enclosing a Stamped Address Envelope to yourself.
State that you only want the birth certificate, if the father is Arthur.
Enclosed your contact telephone number too.
Giving the reference numbers, year and quarter that I have given in an earlier post.

Birmingham Register Office
Holliday Wharf
Holliday Street
Birmingham
B1 1TJ

Certificates can be ordered on line, but in this instance I would write.

Compared to today , there were not so many official forms as there were years ago.
Anyone can call themselves by another name.

I had relatives whose births was register in one name, yet married and died in another.
Clara married and died as Leah.
Laura , married and died as Renee
Charles was known as Jimmy.
Another Clara was known as Dolly.
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

Wow! You had some tricky ones!! I'll see if the birth certificate fits the bill and I'll update this thread. Thanks for your help.
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

These ancestors certainly like to keep us guessing. My most difficult one (so far!) was John Niner who changed his name to Henry Bennett!!!
 
Re: Maisie Johnson

Michael, to cut a complicated story short - John Niner married my 2 x gt.grandmother Jane Martin/Gilmartin née Mackenzie. He was her second husband. It was only after I had made contact with another cousin who had information on Henry Bennett who we thought was the third husband of Jane, and comparing notes and information over some time that we realised John Niner had changed his name and was in fact Jane's second husband not her third! Why? Guess I'll never know that. Jane had 6 children with her first husband (my 2 x gt.grandfather Michael Gilmartin (known later as Martin!!!). She married at St Martins when she was 14 years old. Michael died aged 33 before the birth of their 6th child. She went on to have another 4 children with John Niner/Henry Bennett. The children were known by the surname Bennett. When John Niner died he was registered as John Niner alias Henry Bennett. It was a very complicated puzzle to unravel but a very interesting one!
 
OK - so I can confirm that birth certificate shows dob 2nd January 1890, Arthur as the father and his occupation is coachman (not domestic). Mother is Mary Kezia Johnson formerly Baggott. So I think this is correct. Now I'm chasing grandad's side!
 
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