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John Gaze 1791... help!?

S

Stargazey

knowlegable brummie
Read that Gingerjohn became was stuck (in 2009) at John Gaze 1790/1, who marries Mary Ann Duzmore in 1822 in St Martins in the Bullring. I am too! I am the granddaughter of Elizabeth Gazey 1878-1935, and I have been chasing the Gaze/Gazey/Gazay/Gazy/Gaze tree for the past 6 months. John Gaze 1791 was her Great Great Grandfather. His son William Gazey 1828-1893 (her Great Grandfather) married Elizabeth Houghton1832-1871, to whom Gingerjohn is related. I have never found a birth reg. for John Gaze 1790/1 in Brum or elsewhere, even when I tried Frederick John, which I had an idea he might have been named. I have did find a John Gaze 1790/1 in Normanton upon Soar, Nottinghamshire, from where I’ve been able to go back 4 further generations. However, this link, altho possible, does need supporting evidence. I found the details of John Gazy (name as listed) at his marriage in 1822 to Duzmore. But immediately wondered why a man born in 1790/1 did not marry until 1822? when most married at 21. John Gaze 1790/1 in Normanton on Soar married in Ann Rowbotham in 1814 and a child is born 4 months later. There are no children for another 7 years. Then twins. But I am wondering if he left the village for a while? I have details of John in Normanton marrying a Mary Barrow in 1852. There is 25 years difference in age. This John dies I think in 1873). Like I have never found a birth reg. for John Gazy in Brum, I have never been sure of his dead/burial date. It could be Frederick John 1873 or John 1883 buried in Witton Cemetery. Could Gingerjohn shed any more light on this please? Or can anyone add anymore info to this conundrum.
Stargazey, Hampshire
 
hi and welcome to the forum...hope someone can add info ...we have a section dedicated to surname interests so i have moved this thread to the appropriate section

lyn
 
Have you looked at John Gazy b 1787 Bulkington, Warwickshire? Son of Moses and Ann. This would fit with a John Gazy who was buried in Birmingham Dec 1850, age 64. This would also fit with the fact on the 1851 census, Mary is living with son William, and listed as a widow. Other children of Moses are recorded as having married in Birmingham so it could be they moved from Bulkington to Birmingham at some point.
Lynn.
 
lmr3103 said:
Have you looked at John Gazy b 1787 Bulkington, Warwickshire? Son of Moses and Ann. This would fit with a John Gazy who was buried in Birmingham Dec 1850, age 64. This would also fit with the fact on the 1851 census, Mary is living with son William, and listed as a widow. Other children of Moses are recorded as having married in Birmingham so it could be they moved from Bulkington to Birmingham at some point.
Lynn.
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Thank you very much. I think I came across the Moses family at some point. But I was concerned, taking into account John did marry Mary Ann Duzmore in 1822, that with at a dob of 1790 John would have been 32, and at 1787 he would have been 35. Its very late in these times not to marry until that age. That’s why I looked around for someone who married at the ‘usual’ age of 21 and found John Gaze 1790/1 in Normanton upon Soar. But I will look again at your suggestion. Cheers Stargazey
 
I take your point that it was quite late for the times but certainly not unheard of. Plus Mary Ann Duzmore herself was born in 1785.
Lynn.
 
lmr3103 said:
I take your point that it was quite late for the times but certainly not unheard of. Plus Mary Ann Duzmore herself was born in 1785.
Lynn.
Click to expand...
I agree. Actually nothing seems to be normal with this particular John Gazy! I am hoping and waiting for a reply from Gingerjohn, who posted a long time ago of getting stuck at the same point as me. His aunt was the sister of Elizabeth Houghton who married the son of John 1970/1 son. Meanwhile I’m exploring all possibilities, Cheers Stargazey
 
Stargazey said:
I agree. Actually nothing seems to be normal with this particular John Gazy! I am hoping and waiting for a reply from Gingerjohn, who posted a long time ago of getting stuck at the same point as me. His aunt was the sister of Elizabeth Houghton who married the son of John 1970/1 son. Meanwhile I’m exploring all possibilities, Cheers Stargazey
Click to expand...
OR .... was his Aunt Elizabeth Houghton ... I cant quite remember! Stargazey
 
lmr3103 said:
Have you looked at John Gazy b 1787 Bulkington, Warwickshire? Son of Moses and Ann. This would fit with a John Gazy who was buried in Birmingham Dec 1850, age 64. This would also fit with the fact on the 1851 census, Mary is living with son William, and listed as a widow. Other children of Moses are recorded as having married in Birmingham so it could be they moved from Bulkington to Birmingham at some point.
Lynn.
Click to expand...
Hello Lynn ... Its Stargazey (actually Janet Wallac nee Millard as I was in Brum). Wanted to tell you that it looks like you are right about Moses and Ann being John Gazey’s Dad. Learnt recently that the 1841 Census rounded down all dobs by 5 years, so my John Gaze’s dob was more likely to be 1786 than the 1790, which I thought it was (as did John Houghton - who hasn’t got back to me, even tho I contacted him on his Aston Manor site?). Probs now tho for me include not getting a confirmation of his Johns mother’s name - as I have never been able to find a birth cert for him, and even FMP as yet is not giving up Moses first wife’s surname. So I wondered if you knew it? Moses second wife was Mary Cooper who he married in 1813, when they were both widowed. Moses, who was born in Fillongley, Warks, produced John and Thomas wuth Ann, and then Robert 10years later with Mary. Interestingly, Robert married a Ann Clews, which is an Aston name? as did someone marry a Jane Clews further down my tree ... which I thought might interest John Houghton?). Anyway, just wanted to give you this info, and to thank you for your help, and also to ask you what your interest in the Gazey family is? Look forward to hearing back from you. Stargazey
 
Stargazey said:
Hello Lynn ... Its Stargazey (actually Janet Wallac nee Millard as I was in Brum). Wanted to tell you that it looks like you are right about Moses and Ann being John Gazey’s Dad. Learnt recently that the 1841 Census rounded down all dobs by 5 years, so my John Gaze’s dob was more likely to be 1786 than the 1790, which I thought it was (as did John Houghton - who hasn’t got back to me, even tho I contacted him on his Aston Manor site?). Probs now tho for me include not getting a confirmation of his Johns mother’s name - as I have never been able to find a birth cert for him, and even FMP as yet is not giving up Moses first wife’s surname. So I wondered if you knew it? Moses second wife was Mary Cooper who he married in 1813, when they were both widowed. Moses, who was born in Fillongley, Warks, produced John and Thomas wuth Ann, and then Robert 10years later with Mary. Interestingly, Robert married a Ann Clews, which is an Aston name? as did someone marry a Jane Clews further down my tree ... which I thought might interest John Houghton?). Anyway, just wanted to give you this info, and to thank you for your help, and also to ask you what your interest in the Gazey family is? Look forward to hearing back from you. Stargazey
Click to expand...
 
Stargazey said:
Hello Lynn ... Its Stargazey (actually Janet Wallac nee Millard as I was in Brum). Wanted to tell you that it looks like you are right about Moses and Ann being John Gazey’s Dad. Learnt recently that the 1841 Census rounded down all dobs by 5 years, so my John Gaze’s dob was more likely to be 1786 than the 1790, which I thought it was (as did John Houghton - who hasn’t got back to me, even tho I contacted him on his Aston Manor site?). Probs now tho for me include not getting a confirmation of his Johns mother’s name - as I have never been able to find a birth cert for him, and even FMP as yet is not giving up Moses first wife’s surname. So I wondered if you knew it? Moses second wife was Mary Cooper who he married in 1813, when they were both widowed. Moses, who was born in Fillongley, Warks, produced John and Thomas wuth Ann, and then Robert 10years later with Mary. Interestingly, Robert married a Ann HiClews, which is an Aston name? as did someone marry a Jane Clews further down my tree ... which I thought might interest John Houghton?). Anyway, just wanted to give you this info, and to thank you for your help, and also to ask you what your interest in the Gazey family is? Look forward to hearing back from you. Stargazey
Click to expand...

Hi Janet, glad my info was a help to you! ...I'll see what else I can find out. I haven't any connection to the Gazey family but on this forum we have a dip into research to see what we can come up with, and now like a lot of others I've got the bug! (time permitting)...it's a case of just hitting on the right thing sometimes ! Lynn.
 
Hi Janet, there is a record of Moses Geasy marrying Ann Copland 30.3 1785 in Bulkington...this would fit in with the other dates.
Lynn.
 
Hi Janet. As far as I can see from our membership list, it looks like Gingerjohn and John Houghton are no longer members of this forum. All the same, thank you for sharing your family history with us, it’s a pity Gingerjohn or John may not pick up on it after all your work. However it’s still interesting to see your information because it adds more to our understanding of Brum history. It looks to me that your earlier ancestors, like many others, most probably came to Brum from other areas possibly seeking a better life, more opportunities etc. in the rapidly expanding town at the time.

Viv.
 
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john houghton and gingerjon are the same person viv....change of user name to gingerjon some time ago but hes having trouble logging onto the forum...i have been in contact with jim to see if he can assist

lyn
 
lmr3103 said:
Hi Janet, glad my info was a help to you! ...I'll see what else I can find out. I haven't any connection to the Gazey family but on this forum we have a dip into research to see what we can come up with, and now like a lot of others I've got the bug! (time permitting)...it's a case of just hitting on the right thing sometimes ! Lynn.
Click to expand...
Cheers! Hope to hear from you again! Stargazey
 
Stargazey said:
Read that Gingerjohn became was stuck (in 2009) at John Gaze 1790/1, who marries Mary Ann Duzmore in 1822 in St Martins in the Bullring. I am too! I am the granddaughter of Elizabeth Gazey 1878-1935, and I have been chasing the Gaze/Gazey/Gazay/Gazy/Gaze tree for the past 6 months. John Gaze 1791 was her Great Great Grandfather. His son William Gazey 1828-1893 (her Great Grandfather) married Elizabeth Houghton1832-1871, to whom Gingerjohn is related. I have never found a birth reg. for John Gaze 1790/1 in Brum or elsewhere, even when I tried Frederick John, which I had an idea he might have been named. I have did find a John Gaze 1790/1 in Normanton upon Soar, Nottinghamshire, from where I’ve been able to go back 4 further generations. However, this link, altho possible, does need supporting evidence. I found the details of John Gazy (name as listed) at his marriage in 1822 to Duzmore. But immediately wondered why a man born in 1790/1 did not marry until 1822? when most married at 21. John Gaze 1790/1 in Normanton on Soar married in Ann Rowbotham in 1814 and a child is born 4 months later. There are no children for another 7 years. Then twins. But I am wondering if he left the village for a while? I have details of John in Normanton marrying a Mary Barrow in 1852. There is 25 years difference in age. This John dies I think in 1873). Like I have never found a birth reg. for John Gazy in Brum, I have never been sure of his dead/burial date. It could be Frederick John 1873 or John 1883 buried in Witton Cemetery. Could Gingerjohn shed any more light on this please? Or can anyone add anymore info to this conundrum.
Stargazey, Hampshire
Click to expand...
Hi All! And so happy to receive replies from such a large number of you! Thank you! ... Even tho some of you may have no direct connection with this Gazey tree of mine. Lynn has been v v helpful with my progression back to a Bulkington family, Warks, and I thank her for that. But in response, and after investigation, I might say it could be Weston in Arden ...? up the road!
Moses Gazey seems to be there with his 1st wife Ann? ... Who should be the Mother the mother of
John Gazey m, and his bro Thomas. But I have no surname so far of his wife?
I have found this family to be less than straightforward to say the least! But, it seems I need to do more work! John Gazey (Gazy as named in his marriage cert to Mary Ann Duzmore in 1822 in St Martins in 1822) is a given.! But who was his Mum? And ... The first wife of Moses? Ann! Who!? ... can anyone help!.?
Stargazey
lmr3103 said:
Hi Janet, there is a record of Moses Geasy marrying Ann Copland 30.3 1785 in Bulkington...this would fit in with the other dates.
Lynn.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for that. I’ll get in to it today. Stargazey
 
Stargazey said:
Hi All! And so happy to receive replies from such a large number of you! Thank you! ... Even tho some of you may have no direct connection with this Gazey tree of mine. Lynn has been v v helpful with my progression back to a Bulkington family, Warks, and I thank her for that. But in response, and after investigation, I might say it could be Weston in Arden ...? up the road!
Moses Gazey seems to be there with his 1st wife Ann? ... Who should be the Mother the mother of
John Gazey m, and his bro Thomas. But I have no surname so far of his wife?
I have found this family to be less than straightforward to say the least! But, it seems I need to do more work! John Gazey (Gazy as named in his marriage cert to Mary Ann Duzmore in 1822 in St Martins in 1822) is a given.! But who was his Mum? And ... The first wife of Moses? Ann! Who!? ... can anyone help!.?
Stargazey

Thank you so much for that. I’ll get in to it today. Stargazey
Click to expand...
Ps Bulkington, I read, had a big cottage industry in ribbon weaving. An off shoot from nearby Coventry’s silk weavers (J & S Cash who produced clothes labels were in Coventry). It ended when a large group (Huguenot descendants I think) sailed off to Canada. But was latter revived in an industrial form.
 
Hi Janet do you not think Moses wife could be the Ann Copland that I mentioned ? The dates would fit?
lynn
 
lmr3103 said:
Sorry Janet didn’t see your last post ! Lynn.
Click to expand...

Hi Lynn ... just to report that - at last - I have cracked it! It wasn’t Moses and Ann in Bulkington, that were the parents of John Gazey, it was Thomas Gazey 1752 and Mary Powers 1752 in Chipping Campden, Gloucestershire.

I did have some help from The Midland Ancestors Shop in Birmingham. £5 each search. They were able to tell me that the 1841 Census rounded down all ages by 5 years. So I then knew I was looking for John Gazey abt 1786 and not 1790. (which John Houghton, like me, thought it was). Also they found a Thomas Gazey 1783 who married Elizabeth Caldecott at St Martins Bham in Dec 1821, and that one of the witnesses was Mary Ann Duzmore. Exactly one year later John Gazey marries Mary Ann Duzmore at St Martins - which I knew about. As it looked as if they were bros. I started looking for a Father named Thomas (all up my tree they have been Johns or Williams), and then all the lights I started flashing on Find My Past! And there was John Gazey 1787, along with his brothers William and Thomas, and a girl called Anne, all born in Weston Subedge (up the road from Chipping Campden). The MAS also looked at a document which made reference to Weston ? in Glos, but were unable to read the rest. So when I saw Weston Subedge it confirmed the location, as MAS had looked at all other Westons in Glos. that they knew about.

Anyway, thank you again for your help. I am now one happy Stargazey! And I do hope John Houghton gets to read this, just in case he’s still lost in Brum in 1790!

It might help the Forum to know I that I have a folder of what I call Wild Goose Chases in connection with the Gazey Tree, so are willing to share info on branches of this family in ...

Gloucester - Churchdown Area
Oswestry, Shropshire
Rowington, Warwickshire
Normanton upon Soar, Nottinghamshire
Bulkington, Warwickshire

My friend has done 2 other family trees for me - Millard and Wheeler - and I’ve also started the last of my Grandparents - Sarah Wright, who are in Shropshire. So far only the Millard’s don’t seem to be coming into the city from the countryside, as they are still marrying at St Bartholomews Church in Edgbaston Birmingham in the 1750s, which is as far as she could get. The occupation of one of my ancestors on that tree was described as ... Dog Collar maker! Which kind I wondered! ATB .....
 
Stargazey said:
Hi Lynn ... how do I access the msg?
Click to expand...
Hello Lynn, it’s Stargazey. Would you know if Pat Heming is still a member of the BHF? Just now I looked again at exchanges on the General Discussion Forum - where I originally saw Gingerjohns enquiry about John Gazey - and saw that a Pat Heming replied to him in 2009 about her Gazey ancestors living in Weston Subedge, Gloucester, but migrating to Bham, Redditch or Coventry, and some being associated with Lawden Road - which Gingerjohn was associated with. As you know, my latest research found () my G G G Grandfather John Gazey 1787 living there with his Father Thomas 1752 and his wife Mary Powel 1752, plus siblings William, Thomas and Anne, and that it was Thomas and John who left and married girls from Birmingham in 1821 and 1822. Pat Heming said she had worked extensively on this tree over 30 years, and was willing to share her findings. The people she mentions she traced back to Weston Subedge are living there after my forebears left, but after 30 year’s research she must know an awful lot about this family. So I do hope you can help me connect with her please. ATB Stargazey
 
Pat Heming is listed as "guest" - as far as i know that means she is no longer a member of the forum.
 
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