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James Turner Street

barnard

knowlegable brummie
This is the record of a James Turner acquiring lands in Winson Green including Franklin Street (crossroads with James Turner St):
CR 611/486/1-6 1853-1854
These documents are held at Warwickshire County Record Office

Contents:
Conveyance of land in Franklin Street, Winson Green, Birmingham, from George Norman of Birmingham, brassfounder, to James Turner of Birmingham, gent. Abstract of title to the Mansion House and lands at Winson Green and Birmingham Heath (of which the land in Franklin Street forms part), showing the title of George Norman.
In other legal documents in the set with the land purchase are references to "Susan Emily" and "Ann Marie" - the names of James the button man's daughter and wife and daughter.
This coupled with the extract from the Birmingham Post in 1868 that shows the exchange of land with the executors of the late James Turner Esquire to enable the improvement of Foundry Lane does seem to make James TURNER (c 1792 - 1867) the button maker the front runner.

More details of the "Mansion House" and its lands at Winson Green would no doubt clinch the matter.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
beat me to it jim...so we have yet another james turner as a candidate...as the article says it was never documented as to just which james turner the street was named after and if that is the case then we will never know..i say we just pick which james turner we like the best lol...good thread though...its got our little grey cells working...

lyn
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
Complete Nonsense

Been to the Library of Birmingham I have further evidence that the most likely candidate was the James Turner (c 1792 - 1867) of Hammond, Turner & Sons, button makers who's estate the street was built on.

Update latter

thanks barnard...this is really getting interesting now...look forward to anymore updates

lyn
 

Muddy

Brummie babby
Looking forward to the update. The web has run out of steam, but the family seems to have been quite important. They employed 150 people at the button factory and old man John Turner not only was one of the founders of the Birmingham Banking Company (the building is still there) but looks likely as part of the London Birmingham Railway Company that built the first line from Euston to Curzon St. The 1830s Commons enquiry reads just like HS2 and the bank, along with others, failed in the 1860s. All very familiar.

Did you find the Bevan street register?
 

barnard

knowlegable brummie
Although it could be said to be only anecdotal but coupled with the evidence from the Birmingham Post dated 1868
and the documents held at the Warwickshire County Record Office and listed by the National Archives (see link below)

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=187-cr611&cid=7-229-2#7-229-2

I believe the report by Garry Smith a local historian in his book “A Walk Up The Green” Published by Brewin Books in 1999

ISBN 1 85858 142 7 adds considerable weight that the James Turner in question is the Button Manufacturer

I enclose a scan from the above book from Chapter 15 ” A House older than the prison” Page 59

 

brummie nick

master brummie
I found this James Turner on the 1851 census,

James TURNER Head M 59 M Button Maker Birmm-WAR
Ann Maria TURNER Wife M 58 F --- Birmm-WAR
Ann Maria TURNER Daur U 32 F --- Birmm-WAR
Helen TURNER Daur U 30 F --- Birmm-WAR
Sarah TURNER Daur U 26 F --- Birmm-WAR
Sophia TURNER Daur U 23 F --- Birmm-WAR
Gertrude TURNER Daur U 19 F --- Birmm-WAR
Mrs. BUCKLEY Serv W 33 F Lady's Maid Birmm-WAR
Jane GODFREY Serv U 20 F Cook Birmm-WAR
Esther GOODWIN Serv U 23 F House Maid Birmm-WAR
John LLOYD Serv U 16 M Butler Birmm-WAR
Address: Winson Green, Birmingham
Census Place: Birmingham Birmingham, Warwickshire
PRO Reference: HO/107/2059 Folio: 419 Page: 30 FHL Film: 0332122
 

oldMohawk

master brummie
P.S Does anyone know how to show full size images without the need to click on the thumbnail
The easiest way to show a full size image is to join and use the Forum Image Hosting.
There are ways with the normal uploads but they are more complicated.
 

Radiorails

master brummie
Looking forward to the update. The web has run out of steam, but the family seems to have been quite important. They employed 150 people at the button factory and old man John Turner not only was one of the founders of the Birmingham Banking Company (the building is still there) but looks likely as part of the London Birmingham Railway Company that built the first line from Euston to Curzon St. The 1830s Commons enquiry reads just like HS2 and the bank, along with others, failed in the 1860s. All very familiar.
In a fairly long life I have noticed that history repeats itself often: just different names and players.

I also go along with the button manufacturer as the most likely person of whom the street is named.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Barnard's quote about the James Turner House does seem to make it likely , providing the original information is correct, that this is the real James Turner
 

barnard

knowlegable brummie
I found this James Turner on the 1851 census,

James TURNER Head M 59 M Button Maker Birmm-WAR
Ann Maria TURNER Wife M 58 F --- Birmm-WAR
Ann Maria TURNER Daur U 32 F --- Birmm-WAR
Helen TURNER Daur U 30 F --- Birmm-WAR
Sarah TURNER Daur U 26 F --- Birmm-WAR
Sophia TURNER Daur U 23 F --- Birmm-WAR
Gertrude TURNER Daur U 19 F --- Birmm-WAR
Mrs. BUCKLEY Serv W 33 F Lady's Maid Birmm-WAR
Jane GODFREY Serv U 20 F Cook Birmm-WAR
Esther GOODWIN Serv U 23 F House Maid Birmm-WAR
John LLOYD Serv U 16 M Butler Birmm-WAR
Address: Winson Green, Birmingham
Census Place: Birmingham Birmingham, Warwickshire
PRO Reference: HO/107/2059 Folio: 419 Page: 30 FHL Film: 0332122
This confirms that we must have got the right James Turner
 

ASimons

New Member
Re: James Turner Street
I am sure that I have read somewhere - still trying to track down reference - that the street was named after button manufacturer James Turner (1792 - 1867) who was a partner in Hammond, Turner and Sons. He occupied a large house which was located at the top of what is now James Turner Street in the vicinity of Foundry School. The house is marked on the map of 1857 - Map of Birmingham and its Environs by C.M. Blood. I think the lodge houses still exist opposite the end of Lodge Road, next to what used to be Dolman's Garage. The house was later occupied by industrialist, Richard Tangye, and was called Winson House.
 

barnard

knowlegable brummie
Re: James Turner Street
I am sure that I have read somewhere - still trying to track down reference - that the street was named after button manufacturer James Turner (1792 - 1867) who was a partner in Hammond, Turner and Sons. He occupied a large house which was located at the top of what is now James Turner Street in the vicinity of Foundry School. The house is marked on the map of 1857 - Map of Birmingham and its Environs by C.M. Blood. I think the lodge houses still exist opposite the end of Lodge Road, next to what used to be Dolman's Garage. The house was later occupied by industrialist, Richard Tangye, and was called Winson House.
That is basically what Garry Smith says in his book “A Walk Up The Green” mentioned above
 

Radiorails

master brummie
I think many Members of this Forum had already come to the decision now reported by the Birmingham Mail.
I guess reporters and others may also read the mail here.
 
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