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James Burgoyne photographic collection

Shortie

master brummie
Lyn, just had a look this morning, I think that by the 1891 census No 93 Bull Street will have been a new building in a slightly different position. I knew that Corporation Street was built in the 1880's and so I checked when the Cobden Hotel was built (on the site of Rackhams) and it was completed, you could actually stay in it, by 1883. It's very puzzling, seeing as he Cadbury Shop had the same number, but it does make you think as to how the re-build was all done. I have a drawing/painting of the old Cadbury shops/house which I will scan in later. Just off to Lichfield this morning to buy a dress (important stuff first you see!). I have another photo of The Gullett, too.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Shortie
I agree that there was a rebuild. By the 1889 map there is no open space which could be the garden, and it does not look like an obvious addition (rather than a rebuild). A bit later the Barrow shop is altered to no 94. This, though is likely to be expansion into the shop next door (which sometimes results in the whole shop being given the second shop's number). The earlier maps are not clear enough in detail to be certain what the position was
 

rosie

brummie
Sorry for the delay lyn. That quick look-up was for 1881, but now I've read it properly it means no details for 92/3 and Samuel Hunt, draper, was at 94.

For 1861 it gives a list of staff for the drapers. At 93 it's a tea dealer, and 94 is a "shoe manufacturer" and his wife and staff . (I can't find listing for 1871. I do have problems with their searching methods though!)

It reminded of the film "Half a sixpence" where all the staff lived up in the attics!!

I hope I haven't caused too much confusion.

rosie.
 

Shortie

master brummie


Photo of The Gullett, taken in 1875 (I hope this is not the same as the ones you posted Lyn, I think it's differerent). Two years later it was demolished.
 

Shortie

master brummie


The Cadbury empire in Bull Street. Interestingly, one of their shops was a linen shop. This is apparently 1824, according to the text in the book.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Shortie
The 1824 directory lists ;
Cadbury Richard and Son, linen drapers and silk mercers, 92 Bull St

The 1829 directory lists:
Cadbury Benjamin and James, linen drapers, silk mercers , haberdashers 92 Bull St
Cadbury John, Tea dealer. coffee roaster, etc.93 Bull St


mike​

 

Shortie

master brummie
All interesting stuff Mike. I have found another picture of Bull Street, possibly reflecting the style of the rebuild, but I can't see any Cadbury on it at all, but it does give an idea of how the Victorians rebuilt it. I will probably post it tomorrow now. How my concept of Bull Street has changed, it's getting more and more interesting!
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi shortie...just caught up as ive been out since early morning and not long got in...smashing pics you have posted..both new to me....

lyn
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
Sorry for the delay lyn. That quick look-up was for 1881, but now I've read it properly it means no details for 92/3 and Samuel Hunt, draper, was at 94.

For 1861 it gives a list of staff for the drapers. At 93 it's a tea dealer, and 94 is a "shoe manufacturer" and his wife and staff . (I can't find listing for 1871. I do have problems with their searching methods though!)

It reminded of the film "Half a sixpence" where all the staff lived up in the attics!!

I hope I haven't caused too much confusion.

rosie.
##

hi rosie..no confusion at all...all this info helps to form a picture of how life used to be back then...thank you for your help..its amazing how one photo can keep a thread going and we learn along the way...

lyn
 

Shortie

master brummie
Lyn, you commented about Bull Street being the division between the better part of Birmingham and the rough - where exactly was the better part?

I am curious because of the fact that William Hutton once lived in New Street, and at that time there was a gate from the Bull Ring into New Street to keep the lower orders out, High Street was also rather affluent. I know the Corporation Street site was dire so it seems to me that peripheral to that site it was much better. Is your comment from something you have read that accompanies the old photos?
 

Shortie

master brummie
I wondered if it had Lyn. it seems to me that Birmingham was not just divided into two, because Old Square was beautiful and wealthy, but just beyond that was The Gullett, Dalton Street, London Apprentice Street, and they were dire. Again New Street started off well, but off there was The Froggery which was damp and unpleasant and the Jewish community were forced to live there (by whom and why I don't know). Down beyond the Bull Ring again it was not very special, so it seems to me that Bull Street marking the divide is a bit of an odd statement. I have become quite fascinated by this Bull Street saga, and will post the last photo I have later today. I had never given it much thought before, Bull Street was where Rackhams started, where a sewing machine shop was near to a fish shop all open to the street and although to me smelt disgusting was really quite wonderful. John Collier was over the road and it was just a way up to Colmore Row. How all that's changed now, my perception is completely altered.
 

Shortie

master brummie


This is another photo of Bull Street. My first thoughts were that it is of the Temple Row junction, but I am not sure. I think the fact that the road is fairly flat is the reason I thought that. The caption mentions that it could be on a Sunday because of the lack of people, and it describes it as The Bull Street junction. I think Bull Street had more than one and still does. Has anyone got a clue as to where it might be exactly. I was wondering if the boards in the foreground were the boards around the new Lewis's building, as it's about the right date, but I would be interested in knowing what other folk think.
 

Shortie

master brummie


Now this is one of my favourites I have to say. Newhall Street in the 1890's - my own family would have lived somewhere down here, but probably not in anything so large and grand. Pity they did not leave it like this. The building with the steps leading up to the front door was the Dental Hospital.
 
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mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Shortie
Post 55. I have it listed from when it was earlier put on the forum (and later lost) that it was Bull St.corporation st junction. this would agree with the two little islands in Corporation st, each with a lamp and two posts, that is shown on th e1889 OS map.
 

Shortie

master brummie
Oh thanks Mike - I did wonder whether it was, but the fact that the street is flat rather than sloping made me wonder - I remember that part of Bull Street to have a significant slope - as it does today, so is this looking towards Steelhouse Lane rather than towards High Street? I had not seen it earlier, obviously. I should have lo0oked on my map too, I don't have one as early as 1899, but I do have an early one.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
I do not know exactly which direction, but, assuming this is right, the line of bollards in the centre is corporation st. It is only shown on the 1:500 OS map below

 

Shortie

master brummie
Mike, I think I was viewing this wrongly - I was thinking that the road with the bollards on was Bull Street, but now I think I can see where this is - I think it is facing Central Hall, taken from Bull Street. Hard to say with certainty but I am sure that the buildings we can see are not the Cobden Hotel. Gets the grey matter moving, anyway!
 
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