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Isaiah Baker. Tough Nut To Crack!

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
just looked up the bapt for frances b 1829 bapt 25th sept 1829 daughter of james and sophia baker address essex st and noticed that above that entry is another one for henry b 1824 bapt 25th sept 1829 son of sophia holt..single woman..address smallbrook st...where it says abode on the bapt does that mean where the child was born or where the parents are living at the time of the baptism?? as we have two different addresses:eek: click on arrow top right and it will enlarge

bapt.jpg
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
Hi Lyn - I missed that. I always thought it was where the parents were living but it now looks as if it is where the baby was born! Raises more questions. I found several more baptisms for children of Sophia and James - James 1828, then Frances, William 1831, Selina 1833, Sarah 1836 - all at St Martins. Also a burial for an Ann born 1835 and died 1836.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
evening janice.. like you .i always thought that "abode" meant where the parents were living at the time of the baptism ...but as its impossible to live at 2 addresses at the same time it seems that it means where the baby was born..not sure that it makes much difference to this case though i think its just that sophia had henry at least 5 years before marrying james so i am guessing he was not the father to henry....:rolleyes: think i will rename this thread "what a carry on":D

do you think it would be worth while albert getting that 1839 birth cert for isiaiah baker born birmingham..
 

uncle albert

master brummie
Good evening all, and thank you so much for your hard work. I am very grateful to you all.
What a carry on indeed! So many twists and turns, possibilities and doubts. Could he have been a surviving twin for instance.
I'm not ruling anyone out at this stage, and I have no intention of throwing the towel in just yet either.
It would seem that our best move now is to take a chance with the 1839 Bham birth certificate as suggested, so I will do that tonight, though the wait for these things to arrive by post is excruciating.
I half remember an option to view the GRO documents online, so I'll look into that too.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi albert i think at this stage i agree about taking a chance on that birth cert..it is a gamble but may well turn out to be useful...

lyn
 

uncle albert

master brummie
The Birmingham 1839 birth certificate shows Isaiah's mother's maiden name as Holt.
I think we can safely call that a positive identification now. One would assume that given the ages of the other children, James was the father.
It looks like poor Sophia died of childbirth complications after all, but with baby John not Isaiah, who probably got shipped out somewhere due to him being of an unmanageably young age for James to cope with.
That said; it wasn't too long before he remarried so I would have expected to see him back with the family by 1851.
One or two questions still left unanswered, which I shall still pursue, but I feel sure now that we have uncovered Isaiah's parentage, so once again many thanks for your kindness in helping to crack the hard nut that was Isaiah. Best wishes all. If I find out anything more I will let you know.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
That is great - I didn't realise you had sent for the birth cert as well. I can understand if he got missed off the 1841 census - I have a similar situation on 1891 census with my Gran. It would be nice to try to confirm him in 1851 - perhaps his stepmom had enough with her own children.
 

uncle albert

master brummie
That is great - I didn't realise you had sent for the birth cert as well. I can understand if he got missed off the 1841 census - I have a similar situation on 1891 census with my Gran. It would be nice to try to confirm him in 1851 - perhaps his stepmom had enough with her own children.

I didn't actually send off for the birth certificate. I was on the GRO site in the process of doing so when the details popped up on screen, saving me another tenner. It would seem that if you do a search of their indexes, the results of the search bring up the mother's maiden name. This is the second time I have done this during this thread, so it's well worth noting for future reference. I did pay for Isaiah's wedding certificate though, so that helps to ease my conscience a little.
It would be good to see him somewhere in 1851, and I am on that one now, looking for his older brothers and sisters whereabouts for a start.
He presumably had some kind of contact with James later on if he knew he was a boiler maker, so I'm now leaning more towards him being shipped out to a relative than him having been sent to an orphanage.
I'm also trying to find his Newcastle born father James too, but drawn a blank there straight away would you believe. Early days with him though.
 

rowan

Born a Brummie
I have found a marriage for the HENRY HOLT that was baptised in 1829, marrying in July 16th 1849 no Father' s name, just a line. I think that this maybe the Henry you have looked at, could it be ??
 

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pjmburns

master brummie
Looks promising. Wonder where he went after his Mother died? Intriguingly the only Henry I can find in Birmingham on 1851 census gives his birthplace as Portsmouth - wife is Elizabeth and there is a son aged 10!!
 

uncle albert

master brummie
I'm sure that the Henry Holt you have uncovered is the son of Sophia. Fortunately for me, as I am primarily looking for just mothers and fathers, Henry doesn't really come in to my field of vision as it were, but I am none the less grateful for your input, and it all helps to put meat on the bones.
I'm having trouble trying to find Isaiah's father James's birth if he was born 1805 in Newcastle as stated on the 1851 census. In fact I can't find any James Bakers born anywhere near there for twenty years before or after that date. I'm wondering if it was actually James's father also called James who was born there, and Isaiah's father James assumed on those grounds that he was also born there, when in fact he was born in Birmingham. I have a Bham 1805 birth for a James Baker, and a 1762 James Baker born in North Shields. What an elusive little tribe this lot are turning out to be!
 

rowan

Born a Brummie
I think that maybe the place of birth was mixed up. It is Elizabeth that was born in Portsmouth & Henry born in Birmingham. I think that I have found them in Brighton on the 1861, 71 & 81 census. Elizabeth Ann died in 1891 at Steyning Sussex. Henry died November 1904 in Tunbridge Wells age 76yrs. He was an engine fitter. (if I have followed the correct one) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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rowan

Born a Brummie
I hope this is your James Baker son of James and Sarah Baker baptised 6th of June 1805 at Birmingham St. Martins.
 

uncle albert

master brummie
I hope this is your James Baker son of James and Sarah Baker baptised 6th of June 1805 at Birmingham St. Martins.
I have the same feeling about this couple. It's the only birth that I can find that fits.
Incidentally I did trawl through all the Newcastle under Lyme births too.
Believe it or not my Find my Past and Ancestry subscriptions both ran out today, so I must resubscribe before I can carry on with this carry on. Back soon.
 
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