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Isaiah Baker. Tough Nut To Crack!

uncle albert

master brummie
Thanks Lyn. Our money is safe! The birth certificate clearly states Smith as the mother's maiden name. I was going through the process of ordering it online from the GRO, and just as I was about to order it the details popped up, saving me a tenner.
I have just ordered the marriage certificate from them and expect it to be despatched on the 14th.
One step closer :)
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
excellent albert now all we need is to see the details on the smith/baker marr cert...fingers crossed...dont give up it takes a lot for us to give up on here...love the challenge

lyn
 

uncle albert

master brummie
Albert, my suggestion would be to send for certificate of Alice Baker birth registered July/August/ Sept 1868 Birmingham Volume 6d page 141
The certificate will have mothers surname

Alice ,daughter of Isaiah and Mary Ann,was born on 31st may 1868 and baptised at St George on 21st june.
The only other Alice Baker was born in the first 3 months of 1868 so is eliminated.

excellent albert now all we need is to see the details on the smith/baker marr cert...fingers crossed...dont give up it takes a lot for us to give up on here...love the challenge

lyn
I,ve just received the certificate. The details are:
Isaiah Baker, Age 23, Scale Beam maker, father's name James Baker occupation Boiler Maker.
Mary Ann Smith, Age 21, father Jacob Smith occupation Blacksmith.
Witnesses were Jacob Smith and Louisa Smith.
There we have it. More questions than answers again it would seem. I haven't started searching yet as I wanted to share the news first, and the envelope only arrived 5 minutes ago, so I'll come back with any findings as soon as.
Thanks again all. P.S. Please disregard my comment about ruling out the 1939 Bham born Isaiah through death. I think I may have been losing the plot a little on that day, and need to double check.
 
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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi albert well it seems you have the correct isaiah baker as the marriage cert confirms he was a scale maker..father james appears to still be alive as he is not down as deceased on the cert..

lyn
 

uncle albert

master brummie
It most certainly is the correct Isaiah.
I'very managed to find a James Baker occupation Boiler maker on the 1851 census, born 1805 Newcastle on Tyne. His wife is Ann born Bham, and they have four children but no Isaiah. They were living at Warston Road Bham.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi albert never heard of a warston road but there is a warstone lane...are you now discounting the isaiah in the poor home on the 51 ??
 

uncle albert

master brummie
I thought it might be Warstone Lane but I've scrutinised the original image, even flicking backwards a page or two, and I'm sure it says Warston Road. The transcription says Werston Road.
At this stage Lyn I wouldn't rule out the lad in the poor home.
The boiler maker father on the 1851 census is another tantalising possibility, but we still have Isaiah's apparent absence from any censuses up until 1861.
That said; I can't find the boiler maker on the 1841 census yet.
My goodness. Nothing is ever easy.
Must disappear for a couple of hours now. Will check back in later.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
It most certainly is the correct Isaiah.
I'very managed to find a James Baker occupation Boiler maker on the 1851 census, born 1805 Newcastle on Tyne. His wife is Ann born Bham, and they have four children but no Isaiah. They were living at Warston Road Bham.

hi albert i cant see this james baker being the father of isaiah in the poor home in 1851..reason being why keep 4 children at home and send one to the poor homes..more food for thought:rolleyes: oh i forgot to say that back in 1851 i think warstone lane was called warston road or something like that..also noted on the marr cert that both witnesses were from the smith family..none from the baker side...not that unusal i guess but worth remembering
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
hi albert never heard of a warston road but there is a warstone lane...are you now discounting the isaiah in the poor home on the 51 ??
As the entry is in the St Pauls district I would think it has to be Warstone Lane even though I agree it says Warston Road. On page 1 in the description is says Warstone Road and describes it as being the houses on the right hand side from Carver Street to Frederick Road so it has to be Warstone Lane.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
There is a marriage of a James Baker to Ann George with James as a widower and the marriage is in 1841. Problem is he describes himself as a chemical worker. I wonder if Isaiah's Mother died and that is why he might have ended in the pauper home? Perhaps the 1839 birth cert would reveal his Mother's name?
 

uncle albert

master brummie
Thanks all for your input.
Very interesting to see the marriage to Ann George, as I had searched for that without success. On the 1851 census James the boiler maker is sharing his house with his mother in law Ann George.
Another coincidence is that along with Isaiah, there seems to be no sign of James and his family on the1841 census, so if he was part of the family at that time that would make sense.
I did discover one of my missing ancestors in reform school, and wondered if this might be possible. Another thought was an apprenticeship, but I guess at 11 or 12 he may be too young for that.
He still may be the pauper, but if he is then I don't see him being James the boiler maker's son as well. There may well be another boiler maker called James Baker out there still undiscovered too I suppose.....
 

uncle albert

master brummie
There is a marriage of a James Baker to Ann George with James as a widower and the marriage is in 1841. Problem is he describes himself as a chemical worker. I wonder if Isaiah's Mother died and that is why he might have ended in the pauper home? Perhaps the 1839 birth cert would reveal his Mother's name?
I've just re-read this post, and noticed the fact that James was a widower. It's a very valid suggestion of yours that Isaiah's mother's death might have been responsible for him ending up in the poor home.
Just to make it clear; the 1851 census shows 4 children. Frances b.1830, obviously to his first wife, and then we have Ann b.1845, Joseph b.1847, and Emily b.1850.
The timing of Isaiah's birth also renders the possibility that his mother died giving birth to him. If that happened, I could well imagine James feeling unable to cope with a newborn. This I think strengthens the case for Isaiah being both the son of James and the lad in the poor home.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
yes albert it is possible that isaiah the pauper could be james bakers son...more digging to be done...although having said that all of james children on the 51 are born in birmingham including frances b 1830...isaiah the pauper is born ireland..has anyone found them on the 41 yet ?

lyn
 
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uncle albert

master brummie
I guess it's possible that the poor home's records might be a mistake. It would be good to be able to see those admission records rather than the census.
I'm going to have to sleep on it. Got a 4.15. am start tomorrow then a 12 hour shift. Last four shifts before I break up for Xmas.
Back tomorrow evening.
 

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
Frances Baker 1829 Birmingham to James and Sophia.
There is a marriage St marys handsworth 1827 of James Baker /Sophia Holt.
A death of Sophia Baker 1840 birmingham.
All events may be relevant to your search.
 

uncle albert

master brummie
Good morning all. Off to work now but a quick thank you to Alberta for this latest info.
Sophia's death sits perfectly with the theory of her dying in childbirth.
I think the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit together. James probably unloaded Isaiah if not to the poor home, then to a relative perhaps. Really must dash now. Back this evening.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
Frances Baker 1829 Birmingham to James and Sophia.
There is a marriage St marys handsworth 1827 of James Baker /Sophia Holt.
A death of Sophia Baker 1840 birmingham.
All events may be relevant to your search.
The occupation given for James on Frances' baptism record is a spoonmaker and the address is Essex Street.
The Sophia who died in 1840 is buried on 2nd August at St Mary's and the address is listed as Fazeley Street. Just realised that the entry after hers is a baby John Baker aged a month so sadly the baby died as well and was buried on 12th August.
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
Here is the marriage cert for James and Ann - his address is Fazeley Street which ties in with Sophia's addresson the burial record.
 

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