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HS2 progress 2020 and beyond

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It is heartbreaking to drive through there and the area around the NEC.
It is a desolate desert landscape.
We are told we have to save our planet and that deforestation is to blame for climate change, yet thousands of ancient trees have been sacrificed to make way for HS2.

The eastern section through Kingsbury , Measham ,Ashby de la Zouch etc, I believe has been shelved but whether that is for ever we will have to wait and see.
 
Alberta said:
It is heartbreaking to drive through there and the area around the NEC.
It is a desolate desert landscape.
We are told we have to save our planet and that deforestation is to blame for climate change, yet thousands of ancient trees have been sacrificed to make way for HS2.

The eastern section through Kingsbury , Measham ,Ashby de la Zouch etc, I believe has been shelved but whether that is for ever we will have to wait and see.
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thanks Alberta. i loved water orton.living not far from you it was a loverly walk down bham rd to my girls house.in plank lane. my friend phoned me xmas day and told me what was going on. i feel sorry for the folks who have lived there all there lives,and was kicked out of there homes. no other way i can put that.the forest has now gone,wildlife killed.just so someone can make dosh.it makes me wana screeeeeeeeem.
 
mw0njm. said:
thanks Alberta. i loved water orton.living not far from you it was a loverly walk down bham rd to my girls house.in plank lane. my friend phoned me xmas day and told me what was going on. i feel sorry for the folks who have lived there all there lives,and was kicked out of there homes. no other way i can put that.the forest has now gone,wildlife killed.just so someone can make dosh.it makes me wana screeeeeeeeem.
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I never lived there but had an aunt and uncle that did and I visited often. Always a nice friendly town! As I got older I remember a very nice pub in the village ( my memory is failing me) that always seemed to be very busy! Sad!!!
 
Richard Dye said:
I never lived there but had an aunt and uncle that did and I visited often. Always a nice friendly town! As I got older I remember a very nice pub in the village ( my memory is failing me) that always seemed to be very busy! Sad!!!
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the dog and the digby.pubs we used them
 
I personally am trying to find out if the cost of HS 2 phase 1 is rising compared to the present estimate published in October of a target set at £40 billion. Phase 2a is set at between £5-7 billion presently

Meanwhile work has been started by three tunnel boring machines so far (out of 10) and also the cut and cover so called green tunnels.

In the history of railway transport, there seems to be the most strongest organised opposition ever yet staged continues to battle to stop the HS 2 project. It is as if all the descendants of the Marquis of Chandos and the former Greenham Common protestors have united in a common cause.

For those unsure of who the Marquis was- he was a person who amongst others stopped the progress of the 1832 London and Birmingham Bill through Parliament at the House of Lords committee stage. One of Chandos's causes was the rights of the Turnpike and the stage coach proprietors who would loose business to the new railway. The London and Birmingham Railway Bill was passed the next year, however and the project was completed in 1838. Much of that original track line is in use today with trains travelling at speeds that George & Robert Stephenson could hardly contemplate. But the route is basically that of the Robert Stephenson design.

There are those that have argued that transport in the 21st century deserves a better type of railway and hence the promotion of HS 2. We already have a HS 1 that links the Channel Tunnel with London St Pancras. It seems that construction had an easier ride from protesters. Also, how many protested against Crossrail, which is STILL unfinished.

As HS 2 phase 1 now takes on the form of a linear construction site, no doubt more will protest. But in 19th Century Britain as the railway network was developed there was much more disruption. There was evidently a greater acceptance and many derived employment from the works as each line was made and afterwards there was employment in different forms in the transport line. Then as now there were those dispossessed from homes and work places.

With the time of Beeching a host of railway lines were closed and communities thrown back into a public transport isolation and whilst HS2 promises speed from a few principal places their remains the conventional rail links to these select stations. When HS 2 is complete will a different type of railway travelling become the normal practice? Even now and since October 2021 there is the train operator Lumo who runs trains from Edinburgh to Kings Cross with the latest 803 Hitachi electric trains calling at only a few intermediate locations.
 
I am not clear if you feel that there is something wrong with trains that do not stop at every major station. As long as there are plenty that do stop I can see no reason to object.
 
Surely there were fewer landowners in the 19th century and some, not all, thought they would benefit. The opposition to HS2, I imagine, would mostly come from educated, well-off, literate freeholders, people who have a lot to lose but armed with the tools to fight back.
One of the arguments for HS2 is that it will divert traffic from the West Coast Main Line leaving capacity to run trains directly from stations not on the WCML to, say, London, rather than having slow trains to, say, New Street, where passengers have to alight, wait and then catch a WCML train.
 
Heartland said:
I personally am trying to find out if the cost of HS 2 phase 1 is rising compared to the present estimate published in October of a target set at £40 billion. Phase 2a is set at between £5-7 billion presently

Meanwhile work has been started by three tunnel boring machines so far (out of 10) and also the cut and cover so called green tunnels.

In the history of railway transport, there seems to be the most strongest organised opposition ever yet staged continues to battle to stop the HS 2 project. It is as if all the descendants of the Marquis of Chandos and the former Greenham Common protestors have united in a common cause.

For those unsure of who the Marquis was- he was a person who amongst others stopped the progress of the 1832 London and Birmingham Bill through Parliament at the House of Lords committee stage. One of Chandos's causes was the rights of the Turnpike and the stage coach proprietors who would loose business to the new railway. The London and Birmingham Railway Bill was passed the next year, however and the project was completed in 1838. Much of that original track line is in use today with trains travelling at speeds that George & Robert Stephenson could hardly contemplate. But the route is basically that of the Robert Stephenson design.

There are those that have argued that transport in the 21st century deserves a better type of railway and hence the promotion of HS 2. We already have a HS 1 that links the Channel Tunnel with London St Pancras. It seems that construction had an easier ride from protesters. Also, how many protested against Crossrail, which is STILL unfinished.

As HS 2 phase 1 now takes on the form of a linear construction site, no doubt more will protest. But in 19th Century Britain as the railway network was developed there was much more disruption. There was evidently a greater acceptance and many derived employment from the works as each line was made and afterwards there was employment in different forms in the transport line. Then as now there were those dispossessed from homes and work places.

With the time of Beeching a host of railway lines were closed and communities thrown back into a public transport isolation and whilst HS2 promises speed from a few principal places their remains the conventional rail links to these select stations. When HS 2 is complete will a different type of railway travelling become the normal practice? Even now and since October 2021 there is the train operator Lumo who runs trains from Edinburgh to Kings Cross with the latest 803 Hitachi electric trains calling at only a few intermediate locations.
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Heartland, thank you for that background some I knew and a great deal I did not. I am a follower of Messers Stephenson, Brunel, Boulton Watt Murdoch et al and what they achieved. Watching from a distance it is a different time and day with a different population and density. While I consider myself a change agent it seems that HS2 is not the right solution for many reasons. It is more of the same on a larger scale, and things are not the same. I was fortunate many years ago to attend graduate school with Dr E Demming, a famous strategic thinker who after WWII helped Japanese industry develop at extremely high quality and performance levels because those in the West US & UK would not listen. In one of his first classes which was attended by senior manufacturing and engineering management he said “if it’s not the same it’s differant”, this is not the same and should be different. I believe it’s more than a bigger faster train.Having said that I am hopeful that it succeeds both strategically and financially. The signals from far away are not clear or positive on both counts!
Sorry to be lengthy but it’s heartbreaking to follow this!
 
I can imagine the income from Manchester/Leeds to Bham would be just a fraction of the Bham to London.

So theoretically it would be earning while being finished.
 
I don't doubt the commercial logic but if Leeds - Birmingham had been completed first Birmingham - London would have certainly followed. Starting from London the distant destinations were always going to be at risk.

Older members will recall that the M1 never got to go to Birmingham, stopping at the M45 spur. When the M1 was extended 'London' forgot that 'Birmingham/Coventry' might like to go North too, M1/M45 being a fork in the road not a 'delta' which, so far, is still planned for HS2. (Does anyone really want to do Birmingham - Manchester, let's chop that delta link, they can always change trains in London!).
 
MWS said:
I can imagine the income from Manchester/Leeds to Bham would be just a fraction of the Bham to London.

So theoretically it would be earning while being finished.
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MWS, your assumption assumes there would be income. This seems to be in question under the current situation.
 
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Spargone said:
I don't doubt the commercial logic but if Leeds - Birmingham had been completed first Birmingham - London would have certainly followed. Starting from London the distant destinations were always going to be at risk.

Older members will recall that the M1 never got to go to Birmingham, stopping at the M45 spur. When the M1 was extended 'London' forgot that 'Birmingham/Coventry' might like to go North too, M1/M45 being a fork in the road not a 'delta' which, so far, is still planned for HS2. (Does anyone really want to do Birmingham - Manchester, let's chop that delta link, they can always change trains in London!).
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Well said! I don’t remember much of that but I clearly thinking why didn’t the M1include the second biggest city in the realm? I only used it a few times in the early days but……well I won’t say anymore Spargone said it well!
 
Without going into the environmental or political arguments, can I just stick my head above the parapet to discuss some practical issues. Back in the day we used to be able to travel from the Black Country straight into New Street. This was changed years ago and now we have to use Snow Hill or Moor Street.

We use the trains for many of our holidays, either taking our bikes to another part of the UK or travelling abroad. The journey to Berlin was particularly memorable.

When we do travel with suitcases it is a right pain in the arse [and arm] when we are forced to trundle our suitcases from Moor Street to New Street through a filthy tunnel where we have to ensure we have plenty of change to give to the homeless living in this dire situation.

The journey with suitcases from Curzon Street to Moor Street will be better for us but what about those who need to make a connection from New Street. That is a long way to drag suitcases and baggage?

Having said that we will probably have to use the old services as the HS2 service will probably be too expensive for the poor proletariat like us!
 
The work at Curzon Street at present is a hive of activity as the foundations for the new station are put together and some contractors are still busy with moving services.
HS 2 talk of planning for the Bromford Tunnel at present and work has started on the Green Tunnels, a modern work for cut and cover
More bridges are being planned and a section of the M42 was closed for one such bridge preparatory work.
An important facet of the work are the tunnel boring machines, whose technology, and design, has improved over time. Three tunnel boring machines are now at work with another 7 to come.
 
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Just read that the Saltley viaduct built 1895 is being demolished to make way for HS2, it used to be a toll road, the toll cottage being at the junction of Saltley High street and Washwood Heath Road.

They have started to clear the land almost under the M6 on the Newport road towards Castle Vale in preparation for a tunnel.
 
Alberta said:
Just read that the Saltley viaduct built 1895 is being demolished to make way for HS2, it used to be a toll road, the toll cottage being at the junction of Saltley High street and Washwood Heath Road.

They have started to clear the land almost under the M6 on the Newport road towards Castle Vale in preparation for a tunnel.
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Is the toll cottage being retained, if it is is, a few quid from Hs2 to help preserve its historical base would be good.
 
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