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HS2 Archaeology

Pedrocut said:
Respect to our Carl Chinn.

"Poverty widespread in Victorian Britain... paradox of the wealthiest Nation in the World with so much poverty...badly-built housing, crammed into tightly-packed areas...railways built, poorer people's houses knocked down, overcrowding goes up... the problems of the poor in the late 1800s are actually worsening...”
Click to expand...
Excellent point Pedro! It seems that misguided wealth does not fix everything. In the US California is the richest state In the Union yet has more homelessness, sickness and poverty than any other state and...they can’t pay their bills!
 
Pedrocut said:
The programme suggests that the Anatomical demonstrations advert from 1825 shows that Sands Cox was able to obtain bodies seven years before the Anatomy Act. His father was for 40 yrs surgeon to the Workhouse Infirmary, so Sands Cox may have had access to the bodies of unclaimed members of the Poor.

The Poor should get as much recognition as Sands Cox.
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Birmingham Journal December 1827...discharged after receiving an excellent character from the surgeons of the town...

7226604E-F943-4B21-A70A-3654222A45EE.jpeg
 
A very tricky subject. We’d have taken a long, long time to discover and understand the workings of the human body without subjects to dissect. On the other hand, the removal of human remains without consent is unacceptable. At least the 1832 Anatomical Act was, I believe, supposed to ensure consent was given before bodies were used for anatomical dissection. But something tells me many places - especially workhouses - might well have been remiss in following the advice.

In one year in London the number of cadavers for dissection were between 450-500. By the 1820/30s there were shortages of cadavers and the number of trainee surgeons was rising. A trainee surgeon would perform around three dissections during training. Multiplied by the number of medical schools and it amounts to a significant number of human remains being used.

I wondered how many of the burials at Park Street showed signs of dissection. Don’t think it was mentioned, unless I missed it. But presumably they’d all have finally been buried in the poorer, northern end of the burial ground. And were many linked to nearby Lichfield Street workhouse ? Are there any records from the workhouse ? We may never know. Such a pity, and as Pedrocut says, the humans who gave their bodies to progressing medical research should also be properly recognised. They’re no small number either. Viv
 
In the programme it was stated that more than 40 of the skeletons had shown signs of having been dissected after 18 months of digging, and more were being uncovered.
 
It would be fitting if those people could be remembered in some way.

As mentioned before, I was uncomfortable at the placing of items inside the human skulls (broken wine glass, broken marmalade jar, bricks) when they were reburied. If it was down to pranks by trainee surgeons, it just shows the level of disrespect they had for the bodies of those helping them to get their qualifications. Maybe those remains were murderers (and so executed). But the programme showed little research into this. Think looking more closely at the remains of those showing dissection would be an interesting line of enquiry.

Viv.
 
The Anatomical Act of 1832 was not without opposition...

“They tell us it was necessary for science. Science? Why, who is science for? Not for poor people. Then if it is necessary for science, let them have the bodies of the rich, for whose benefit science is cultivated.
 William Cobbett
 
I struggle a bit to think of the 'respect' for the body, can't be anything less respectful than chucking it in a ditch (burying) or chucking it into a furnace (cremating).
Saying a few nice words over it doesn't change the end result, when you're gone you're gone.
 
Eric
What you say is true, but the respect that should be shown is really to ease and respect the feelings of those they leave behind.
 
Yes plenty of debate around this, depending on faith, culture, tradition etc etc.

Agree Mike. For some it’s little to do with the dead person - and for those who were murderers, I expect many would say it was appropriate and just.

Does anyone know if there are records from Lichfield Street Workhouse anywhere ? Viv.
 
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I did pick up on the fact that the remains were to be interred 'outside the city' but still not sure where this would be. They probably have more investigation to do before re-burial is carried out.
 
hi pen my guess would be interred at witton and or keyhill/warstone lane...cant really think of many places large enough...only a guess though

lyn
 
you could well be right mike..but i dont think the remains will be re buried in a new coffin each which would take up space more likely they will all to go into one large pit with hopefully a memorial headstone...still does not sit right me however its done but its done now and we cant change it

lyn
 
Interesting that the programme highlights the occurrence of osteoarthritis seen in the wrists of some skeletons, a pattern not seen in other cemeteries. Industrial toil !

“A girl of average industry could stamp out 28,000 pen nibs in a day shift of 10 hours.”
 
Pedrocut said:
Interesting that the programme highlights the occurrence of osteoarthritis seen in the wrists of some skeletons, a pattern not seen in other cemeteries. Industrial toil !

“A girl of average industry could stamp out 28,000 pen nibs in a day shift of 10 hours.”
Click to expand...

That story sort of reminded me of my old friend Ted Ellis, he was an engraver in the jewellery quarter, he had elbow and wrist trouble, it was caused by the engraving tool which looked like a steel ball with a sharp point, the ball was held firmly in the palm of the hand and the point used to cut into the work.
 
A bit more information concerning Park Street can be seen from the site below, but the actual thread for Park Street seems to be closed.

“Brick-lined tombs were relatively common in the southern part of the cemetery, where there were more wealthy burials.

The burials in the north half of the Park Street cemetery are particularly dense and it appears that additional material was imported to raise the ground level so that a second layer of burials could be interred after the space was full. There is also a higher rate of child mortality in the individuals buried in this area, compared to those in the southern part of the burial ground, which contains more individual burials and brick-built crypts.”
www.archaeology.co.uk

HS2 dig uncovers Birmingham’s 19th-century inhabitants - Current Archaeology

Archaeologists have completed their excavation of the Park Street burial ground in Birmingham. Some 6,500 skeletons were excavated from the cemetery, which was open from 1810 to 1873.
www.archaeology.co.uk www.archaeology.co.uk
 
And the work for HS2 Is actually the third disinterment at Park Street; previous ones 1892 and 1967. See post #8 here

Disinterment and reinterments at Birmingham burial grounds

In this thread I intend to record any Birmingham disinterment and reinterment of human remains. I shall give brief details, an example of a report and give reference to the general thread about the place of worship and it’s burial ground. This may be of help to those researching the whereabouts...
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk
Viv.
 
Just got back from a trip into Birmingham New Street on the Cross City Line from Chester Road. The tent is now down and there's a good view of the work going on in Park Street. Better still is the lovely view of the roundhouse at Curzon Street station. A glass floor at the new station would be wonderful. A quick trip on the train just one station to Duddeston and back is well worth it.
 
There is an interesting book called The Bodysnatchers, by Suzie Lennox (2016) available on Kindle for 99p
 
The webinar mentions charnel housing. (People were often buried without coffins and left to decompose for a few years, after which graves could be opened and the bones removed. The bones were then placed in a charnel house, a vault for storing human skeletons. The gravesite was then reused). Assuming this practice went on at Park Street, I wonder where the human bones were reburied ? And we’re they excavated with all the other burials ?

This drawing from the webinar shows Park Street Cemetery after it had been bought by Birmingham Corporation and made into gardens (1880). Viv.

87E72102-868A-42C8-98E7-3FCC2BA83E49.jpeg
 
I have recorded the first three programmes about the dig but the fourth did not appear, have I missed it?
rosie.
 
Thanks lyn, my series link said 4 so I thought I must have missed one but maybe there's another soon about re-burials and artefacts. (Probably just my Skybox on the blink!)
rosie.
 
Rosie I too hope there’s more, as the picture is not complete. People are interested to know ‘what happened next’. But I suppose that depends on programme budgets. And in this climate, who knows. Viv.
 
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