• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

How to I find old street maps?

L

lynner4

Guest
I'm the States and have started a family history blog and one of the questions that has come up, how to locate addresses listed on a census. For example, St George Street Court 6 House 2, Birmingham St George, Warwickshire. I assume this is back-to-back housing. I have this an other addresses to look up, is there a place to do this on-line. I haven't found what I'm looking for. Any ides??
 
Here's the street in 1890 and may have been pretty much the same up until the 1960s. Which is your court I can not say but others on here will probably have some info on that.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...d=10094&ox=901&oy=2446&zm=1&czm=1&x=453&y=241

The courts are at the back of the street houses and can be entered via the entreys that can just be seen leading through.

As for finding past locations I just simply GE the adress and then go to the home page of the above site and choose 1:2500 when possible and search through the map pages. This one was fairly easy with a knowledge of the area.

The lined up squares in the courts would be houses I believe and the smaller squares would be the single toilette to serve the court and also there would be a wash house (boiler house) that would be shared to wash clothes in. Bit cold in winter. Yeah...we had it good in those days.
 
There is no site where you can put in an address and it will tell you where it was. There is a site
(https://www.old-maps.co.uk ) which has maps going back to 1889. It takes a while to gey used to using it, and to find a map you have to know where in the UK it is, as you click on an area and can then see if a suitable map is available. With St George st this is reasonably easy as the street, though altered in its course, is still, in part, still there. Below is the relevent map with what I think is no 2 (assuming court is numbered from the access) in court 6. Here the relevent court is numbered on the map. Not all are. In that case it can usually / often be determined from directories etc where the court is, though if it disappered long before 1889 there can be problems.
Also, fine detail such as court numbers , passageway names etc are mainly only shown on the 1:500 scale maps. These are not available everyware, and only (usually) for about 1889 (the year varies for some towns other than birmingham ie for leeds it is around 1857). This is because, in general, only major towns were covered (and remember in 1889 many areas now built up were then relatively sparsely occupied), but in a few cases because the maps have gone missing. (apparently at one time the ordnance survey at southampton allowed researchers into the rooms where they were kept and some disappeared).
If you cannot find the other addresses then post again and will try and help
Mike

map_1889_st_george_st_no_2_court_6.jpg
 
Morning Mike,thats an interesting map,you can see a pub (The Carpenters)on the corner of George Street and Hospital Street.Does the map show a pub (The Glassmakers) on Hospital Street?It was there between the wars and a have been trying to find it's location for a long time now.Moss.
 
the 1:500 map does name some pubs not named in the directories, but not all. Have just checked, and the only marked pubs on the map in hospital st are:
Angel, White swan, white hart, Carpenters, Queen adelaide, St Georges tavern, vulcan & Guildford.
Mike
 
Thanks for checking the map Mike.I guess i will have to keep searching for The Glassmakers pub,it was on Hospital St and i think between Tower Street & Brearley Street.Moss.
 
Thanks so much for the help. After the first response, I tried to use the ordinance survey to locate another address. It was like throwing darts, hoping I'd hit somewhat close. I have no familiarity with Birmingham. Most of the addresses I am looking for would be working class families in Birmingham and Handsworth. I will keep working on it and post again when I stumble.
This is a wonderful forum!
 
Mossq.
the glassmakers arms does not seem to be listed in any directory I have. However, there were two "beer retailers " between Brearley st and Tower st, nos 155 and 170. the electoral rolls for 1922-1930 list no 155 as the Glass Cutters' Arms. Could this be the one you mean ?. I attach a 1913 map. I am not 100% certain which building it is, but it either the red or blue building, just by Heaton Reuben. I think it is probably the red building.
Mike

map_c_1913_showing_glasscutters_arms.jpg
 
Thats great Mike.Just the information i was looking for.Now i will be looking for a picture,i hope you read this Lyn.
 
lyner4, On GE find a noted focal point and place a pin and find the same on the 1890 Birmingham Warwickshire ordnance survey page...it will be the one with Birmingham on it on the Warwickshire grid. Use 1:2500...the maps are better quality. Make sure that north is at the top on GE and then both it and the survey will be oriented correctly. This will give you some idea of where to look on the grid directionwise. You can also follow major roads to the spot like Soho Road or Stratford Road or via High Street from The Bull Ring to Coleshill Road. It's not often that at least some remains of an old street are not there today and most still can be found on GE.

If you go to the home page of British History On Line and chose Maps. you will get a search square and sometimes if you know a district say...Yardley or Nechells or such it will give you what maps to look at by typing in the square and pressing go. Does not always work and does not work for streets. If you measure from say the Bull Ring datum to the remains of your search street on GE and note the direction from your datum you can pick a map page on the survey grid if you determine the distance a page covers. Note that the Birmingham area is divided between three counties Warwickshire for the most part but also Staffordshire and Worcestershire (the whole of which was used to make the famous sauce}. Hope this helps but it will take you a while.

When you select a grid page and click on it; this will give a magnified portion of where you click. By further clicking on this magnified portion...where you click will come to centre and you can move across the whole map page this way untill you get to the edge of it. Then you will have to go back to the grid by pressing maps and select the next page over in the direction that you want to go. Before exiting the page you are on make a note of the page number. You can also go back by back spacing but this takes a while if you have moved around a lot on the current page. You probably know all of this anyway. Good Luck.
 
The Old-Maps website is no longer available for free!!! This is quite a blow for folks such as us who used it for research and our personal enjoyment of Birmingham's heritage. No doubt there are alternatives (I'm looking now!) but I feel this is a sad outcome. D
The National Library of Scotland has a good range of OS maps and street plans. This link takes you to the 1888-1913 map for the centre of Birmingham: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.949999999999998&lat=52.47911&lon=-1.90186&layers=6&b=1
I hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Follow this thread. Not as good - yet.

Old Maps Website

Not sure how many people use this excellent site but there's a message on the homepage saying that the website will be closing down on 31st Oct. https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/ A shame.
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk
 
lynner4 said:
I'm the States and have started a family history blog and one of the questions that has come up, how to locate addresses listed on a census. For example, St George Street Court 6 House 2, Birmingham St George, Warwickshire. I assume this is back-to-back housing. I have this an other addresses to look up, is there a place to do this on-line. I haven't found what I'm looking for. Any ides??
Click to expand...
Hi Lynne,
My father was born in one of the Courts on St Georges St (June 10th 1920) Have not "pinned down the address yet but they have just released the census for 1921 so he should be on there.
I will get back when I have an address.
 
mikejee said:
There is no site where you can put in an address and it will tell you where it was. There is a site
(https://www.old-maps.co.uk ) which has maps going back to 1889. It takes a while to gey used to using it, and to find a map you have to know where in the UK it is, as you click on an area and can then see if a suitable map is available. With St George st this is reasonably easy as the street, though altered in its course, is still, in part, still there. Below is the relevent map with what I think is no 2 (assuming court is numbered from the access) in court 6. Here the relevent court is numbered on the map. Not all are. In that case it can usually / often be determined from directories etc where the court is, though if it disappered long before 1889 there can be problems.
Also, fine detail such as court numbers , passageway names etc are mainly only shown on the 1:500 scale maps. These are not available everyware, and only (usually) for about 1889 (the year varies for some towns other than birmingham ie for leeds it is around 1857). This is because, in general, only major towns were covered (and remember in 1889 many areas now built up were then relatively sparsely occupied), but in a few cases because the maps have gone missing. (apparently at one time the ordnance survey at southampton allowed researchers into the rooms where they were kept and some disappeared).
If you cannot find the other addresses then post again and will try and help
Mike

map_1889_st_george_st_no_2_court_6.jpg
Click to expand...
WWW.old-maps.co.uk is no longer available to the public, is there any other web sites to access these old maps ?
 
Sorry, Mike wrote this before I realized you were replying to Linda4smith.

Many thanks for your helpful and comprehensive information. I have done a bit of search and have narrowed it down to being on the spot where the Hockley Social Club is now. Though listed as 60 Hampton St, Birmingham B19 3LU (site of The Birmingham Arms), the entrance seems to be (checking Google Maps) where Trafalgar Square was. That was the name given to that courtyard in the first 20 years of the 1900s.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/H...8m2!3d52.4895162!4d-1.903334!16s/g/11hf7_j7vx

Thanks once again
John Wilkes
 
Linda4smith said:
WWW.old-maps.co.uk is no longer available to the public, is there any other web sites to access these old maps ?
Click to expand...
This is St Georges St early 30s This is No4 Trafalgar Square where my dad lived. As you can see it was expanded from the pre-1900 map.
PS- The Baths Building and the Co-Op yard are the only thing remaining on this map'
 

Attachments

  • XXL_20220221_125325206.PORTRAIT.jpg
    XXL_20220221_125325206.PORTRAIT.jpg
    225.3 KB · Views: 10
Last edited:
A good source for old maps is the National Library of Scotland. ( nls.uk )
Unfortunately, not too easy to use, you really have to play around with it to find the area and year and type of map you are looking for. I succeeded, but only after much clicking and swearing.
 
I'm really missing the old maps site. It was useful for working out house numbers. Is there anywhere you know of where we can find maps with some house numbers on?
 
Sarah M said:
I'm really missing the old maps site. It was useful for working out house numbers. Is there anywhere you know of where we can find maps with some house numbers on?
Click to expand...

What street are you looking for? I scanned some of the maps with numbers before the old site closed and I know others did as well.
 
MWS said:
What street are you looking for? I scanned some of the maps with numbers before the old site closed and I know others did as well.
Click to expand...
That's really kind, but it was more a general enquiry really because I have a lot to look up as I go along whilst I'm writing up. My family lived in Nechells, Digeth and round Slaney Street up by Snow Hill.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top